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Old 02-01-2006, 09:27 PM   #76
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Christians promote pictures and images of Christ they create and sell them.


Moslems forbid any images of Mohammed.

There are no images. (period)

This is sacred to them, I do not get it, personally.

That is why the poor comparison of naked pictures of your mother.

Mothers are sacred to many/most.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:34 PM   #77
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Perhaps you should look at the archive of Mohamed images including those created by Muslims in Islamic countries.

Gallery

There is absolutely nothing right about having the secular community forced to abide by Islamic principles. It is free expression by non-beleivers of a historical figure/cult leader/military leader who's ideology has lasted to this day and is at the core of many a contentious issue.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:42 PM   #78
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Those are some great examples A_Wanderer. Who's idea was it not to have paintings of Muhommad
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:45 PM   #79
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i know you had a birthday- are you slipping?

You're a real smart guy

and this site is how you make your argument?

most of those images are centuries old European authors and artist

and the claims "this is Mohammed by a Moslem artist" is hardly convincing

i particularly like this one



You are letting your extreme anti Moslem bias erode your usual high debating standards.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:49 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Their belief is no images, likeness, of any kind of Mohammed.

And I think that is fine. For Muslims.

It's a rule for them to live by, not for me. Why should infidels have to abide by it too? Especially in non-Muslim governed nations.

I don't even have a problem with them choosing not to buy products from nations that don't officially share their belief. But before they demand an apology for this, perhaps many Islamic nations should apologise to Israel for the clerics who preach it should be wiped from the face of the earth.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:50 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Those are some great examples A_Wanderer. Who's idea was it not to have paintings of Muhommad




maybe it was a link from this site


Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
http://www.digitalsword.co.uk/truthaboutislam.htm

Quote:
In 1990 a well preserved Tyranosaurus Rex skeleton was found.
Parts of this dinosaur had NOT been fosillised (odd if it was around sixty five million years old?) and scientists found red blood cells inside.

All the tests done to prove it is blood, by showing it contains hemoglobin, have ALL had postive results - laser light testing and even injection into rats showed it to be exactly what it appears to be, blood cells.

The problem is that a sixty five million year old dinosaur skeleton should have been completely fossilised (other partially fossilised remains have been found so this is not a one off find).

Also DNA decomposes when an animal dies and after less than fifteen thousand years there wouldn`t be DNA left, certainly not after 65,000,000 years.




On this site Wanderer can learn the truth about evolution.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:51 PM   #82
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It prevents idolotry, Christians have not been afraid to do similar things over time.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:53 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



On this site Wanderer can learn the truth about evolution.
Actually that t-rex discovery where the tissue inside the bone had fossilised perfectly was a genuine discovery, not one that supports creationism but a tremendous specimen that showed similar marrow to that of the modern ostrich.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:57 PM   #84
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Muslims don't believe in visually portraying Mohammed. They don't like to create images of him. It's like idolatry to them. So images of him are banned in their countries. Even in secular Turkey, most of the people are Muslim, therefore no Muslim in Turkey would draw a picture of him. I've personally decided not to ever draw him in a picture because it wouldn't make my Muslim friends happy, and I really have no reason to put him in a picture. If I want to depict something Islamic, I use something more abstract and symbolic, such as a crescent, a frequently used symbol in Islamic cultures. I suck as a figure drawer, anyway.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:00 PM   #85
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I support the right for everyone to publish whatever they want, within the legal limits obviously. But I wouldn't want to be caught dead thinking I'd have to support freedom of press/free speech by means of publishing cartoons which do not meet my standards. These do not add anything to any discussion, it's obviously that they're only made to provoke and on top of that, they seriously lack in the humor department (not unlike the work of Van Gogh btw). I'm not surprised to see people like Geert Wilders put them on his website, considering it's incidents like these which gives him the attention he needs.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:00 PM   #86
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Re: i know you had a birthday- are you slipping?

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
You're a real smart guy

and this site is how you make your argument?

most of those images are centuries old European authors and artist

and the claims "this is Mohammed by a Moslem artist" is hardly convincing

i particularly like this one



You are letting your extreme anti Moslem bias erode your usual high debating standards.
Where his face isn't depicted they are the Islamic, I fail to see how it is "hardly convincing", they are all sourced and you can track them down.

I have an anti-religion bias and in this case the believers that are stifling free expression are Muslim. The religion has not been neutralised by secularism and mockery like Christianity has so this isn't unexpected.

The principles of free expression and secularism are being eroded in this case. In Western Europe in the 21st century it is disgusting that people are threatened for blasphemy. I refuse to give it a pass consistently be it Christian or Muslim.
Quote:
Islamic tradition bans any depiction of the prophets either in drawing or statues, even respectful ones, out of concern that such images could lead to idolatry, and thus worshipping of Muhammad instead of the One God.

However, some Muslims do not subscribe to this and several representations of Muhammad in Islamic art do in fact exist, although some Islamic depictions of Muhammad from the front did not include his face.
Taken from wikipedia.

If bad taste is a criteria for free expression then I guess that we should start banning every Pauly Shore movie.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:06 PM   #87
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It is too bad Israelis did not produce these images in Israel.

I have to hand it to Israel they know how to deal with these incidents.


Quote:
In 1997, an Israeli woman named Tatiana Soskin drew this caricature of Mohammed as a pig authoring the Koran and tried to display it in public in the city of Hebron. She was arrested, tried and sentenced to jail.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:08 PM   #88
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Quote:
You are letting your extreme anti Moslem bias erode your usual high debating standards.
And you are more or less saying that this is offensive to Muslims, I agree with that - sure it's offensive and crude but is that cause for censorship - be it self censorship or government blasphemy laws (I mean religious tollerence laws - always get those mixed up).


I reiterate that making a cartoon of Jesus ejaculating over Mary while being done over by Joseph would be a depiction of supremely bad taste - but I think that I could safely draw and distribute something like that without having to worry about personal safety.

Where do we draw the line? If these cartoons get deemed offensive enough to ban to we ban books that are offensive to Muslims, ones that portray Mohammed in a poor light, do we succumb to pressure and outlaw The Satanic Versus?

What course of action do you advocate, I agree that they are offensive pieces to believers but that in and of itself is no cause for censorship and I will fall strongly on the side of free speech - where do you stand?
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:10 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
It is too bad Israelis did not produce these images in Israel.

I have to hand it to Israel they know how to deal with these incidents.
You are infering that you advocate jail for people's free expression
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:14 PM   #90
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Re: Re: i know you had a birthday- are you slipping?

Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Taken from wikipedia.

I did read the whole Wiki entry earlier as one source on Mohammed.

and here is what I found

Quote:
Even non-iconic representations of Muhammad are traditionally discouraged. From the 16th century, however, Persian and Ottoman art frequently represented Muhammad in miniatures, albeit with his face either veiled, or emanating radiance (see e.g. Siyer-i Nebi). Modern caricatures of Muhammad have caused great controversy and criticism (see Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons for an example).

I did go to the links and all the old Moslem paintings had a male figure in long robes with a veil over his face.

So i was left with no visual concept of what Mohammed may have looked like.

I was trying to learn why Moslems feel so strongly about this and if it was true they had no likeness of him.
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