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Old 02-09-2006, 10:29 AM   #361
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Syria is a police state, with a large gathering of people in protest it is very difficult to imagine the government not being able to control them (for instance look up the reception that David Duke was given in Damascus). The attacks on the embassies in Syria and Iran was permitted through the minimum possible action by the respective governments, The boycotts being employed by these governments also shows off their Islamic credentials and can help keep popular opinion at bay (remeber that in the Egyptian elections the Muslim Brotherhood came out quite strongly).

You are saying that they permitted public sentiment to be directed at others (those countries in which the cartoons were latterly published) but that is notably different than "directing all anger outwards to prevent internal dissent". To make such a claim requires

1) evidence that there were significant levels of internal dissent directed towards the governments of those countries.

2) That the governments in these countries willingly redirected anger outwards to stay 1).


Do you have any evidence for either of these necessary premises?
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:41 AM   #362
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MSNBC News Services
Updated: 8:39 a.m. ET Feb. 9, 2006

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Hundreds of thousands of Shiite Muslims transformed a religious ceremony in Lebanon on Thursday into an emotional but peaceful protest against cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

“Defending the prophet should continue worldwide,” Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, told the crowd. “Let (U.S. Secretary of State) Condoleezza Rice, (President) Bush and all the tyrants shut up: We are a nation that can’t forgive, be silent or ease up when they insult our prophet and our sacred values.”

“Today, we are defending the dignity of our prophet with a word, a demonstration but let George Bush and the arrogant world know that if we have to ... we will defend our prophet with our blood, not our voices,” Nasrallah added.

Rice on Wednesday accused Iran and Syria, both backers of Hezbollah and at loggerheads with the West, of deliberately stoking rage among Muslims.

Bush urged governments to stop the violence, including attacks on Western diplomatic missions in parts of the Muslim world.
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:07 PM   #363
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Originally posted by verte76
How pissed off are these people at their own government, and how much of the anger is directed at the cartoon? Combine the two and you've got a ton of anger, which blew up all over the Middle East this week. It was anger directed at several governments, Denmark, and the EU.
Your posts suggest that Muslims are angry people that can be "set off" by something as simple as a cartoon.
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:47 PM   #364
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Bush, Rice told to ‘shut up’ over cartoon issue

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BEIRUT, Lebanon - Hundreds of thousands of Shiite Muslims transformed a religious ceremony in Lebanon on Thursday into an emotional but peaceful protest against cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

“Defending the prophet should continue worldwide,” Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, told the crowd. “Let (U.S. Secretary of State) Condoleezza Rice, (President) Bush and all the tyrants shut up: We are a nation that can’t forgive, be silent or ease up when they insult our prophet and our sacred values.”

“Today, we are defending the dignity of our prophet with a word, a demonstration but let George Bush and the arrogant world know that if we have to ... we will defend our prophet with our blood, not our voices,” Nasrallah added.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:59 PM   #365
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Deep anger, not cartoons, spurred Muslim protests

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Even as protests intensified yesterday against the publication of cartoons satirizing the Prophet Muhammad, scholars who study the Muslim world caution that the cartoons themselves are almost unimportant.

What matters more, they say, is a store of frustration and anger among Muslims that was ready to be ignited, if not by cartoons originally published in a Danish newspaper then by some other image or event that in the West would first seem unremarkable.

Citizens of many Middle Eastern countries are aggrieved by corruption and lack of democracy, and eager to express their fury, said Sanam Vakil, assistant professor of Middle East studies at Johns Hopkins' School of Advanced International Studies in Washington. Wary governments, meanwhile, have seized on the cartoon controversy to deflect that frustration.

"They are allowing people to unleash their anger on foreigners rather than on their leaders," Vakil said. "You have to understand that many of these protests are sanctioned by their governments, and many of these governments are autocratic dictatorships."
Perhaps the further spead of democracy will lead to a more peaceful region. Getting there will be difficult, but it appears to be the better long term solution.
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Old 02-09-2006, 04:15 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2numb2feel



You are saying that they permitted public sentiment to be directed at others (those countries in which the cartoons were latterly published) but that is notably different than "directing all anger outwards to prevent internal dissent". To make such a claim requires

1) evidence that there were significant levels of internal dissent directed towards the governments of those countries.

2) That the governments in these countries willingly redirected anger outwards to stay 1).


Do you have any evidence for either of these necessary premises?
I think that the success of hard Islamic parties in elections (Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas) demonstrates the threat to many a secular dictators power, terrorist attacks against their interests have hit all over the Arab world, the power that the police excercise against active dissent (Egypt arresting bloggers), the absence of a critical media - there is a reason that these countries banned Al Jazeera - all point towards dictators wanting to show off their Islamic credentials in the eyes of a public who is becoming increasingly torn between the decaying ruin of kleptocratic government and self appointed protecters of moral virtues in Islamic parties.
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Old 02-09-2006, 04:25 PM   #367
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LONDON (Reuters) - The European Union may try to draw up a media code of conduct to avoid a repeat of the furor caused by the publication across Europe of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad, an EU commissioner said on Thursday.

In an interview with Britain’s Daily Telegraph, EU Justice and Security Commissioner Franco Frattini said the charter would encourage the media to show “prudence” when covering religion.

“The press will give the Muslim world the message: We are aware of the consequences of exercising the right of free expression,” he told the newspaper. “We can and we are ready to self-regulate that right.”
link

Well sounds like a fun little kingdom.
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Old 02-09-2006, 04:42 PM   #368
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Perhaps the further spead of democracy will lead to a more peaceful region. Getting there will be difficult, but it appears to be the better long term solution. [/B]


democracy delivered with bombs and occupations?

while i think we can all agree that democracy is a good thing, isn't the delivery system just as important? doesn't the means of delivering democracy, if poorly chosen, sabotauge the process before it even begins? also, what if democracy results in the installation of Shia theocracy across the Middle East, uniting Iran and Iraq?
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Old 02-09-2006, 04:54 PM   #369
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Some bits come out
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Furor over the caricatures of Islam's most revered figure may have triggered the wave of recent demonstrations among Muslims worldwide. But as the protests escalate, they are morphing into an opportunity for individuals, groups and governments to push agendas that often have little or nothing to do with defending Islam. Rallies ostensibly held for religious reasons have become chances to vent economic frustrations, settle local scores or gain political leverage.
.....
The autocratic Syrian government was widely believed to be behind protests Saturday that resulted in the burning of the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus. In Lebanon, where the Danish Embassy burned a day later and Christian landmarks were targeted in violence, local news organizations reported that Syrian agents had protesters bused in to help stir up trouble.
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People watching TV news may think that the whole Muslim world is ablaze with righteous rage translated into "spontaneous demonstrations." The truth is that the overwhelming majority of Muslims, even if offended by cartoons which they have not seen, have stayed away from the street shows put on by the radicals and the Iranian and Syrian security services.

The destruction of Danish and Norwegian embassies and consulates happened in only two places: Damascus and Beirut. Anyone who knows Syria would know that there are no spontaneous demonstrations in that dictatorship. (Even then, the Syrian secret police failed to attract more than 1,000 rent-a-mob militants.) And the Syrian government refused the Norwegian Embassy's request for additional police protection. It was clear that the Syrians wanted the embassies sacked.

The rent-a-mob attacks in Beirut were more cynical. The Syrian Ba'ath — which has been murdering, imprisoning or deporting Sunni-Salafi militants for years — was suddenly transformed from a radical secular and Socialist party into "the Vanguard of the Faith." The mob that committed the atrocities in Beirut was bused from Syria and consisted of Muslim Brotherhood militants who are never allowed to demonstate on their own account.

The Muslim crowds that have demonstrated over the cartoons seldom exceeded a few hundred; the Muslim segment of humanity is estimated at 1.2 billion. And only three of Denmark's embassies in 57 Muslim countries have been attacked.
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Old 02-09-2006, 05:47 PM   #370
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Meanwhile, Jyllands-Posten has reiterated its apologies to Muslims for causing offence by publishing the original 12 cartoons, in a letter to the Algerian press. The letter was distributed via the Danish embassy in Algiers.

"We apologise for the great misunderstanding generated by the publication of the caricatures that showed the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and created aggressive feelings towards Denmark and calls for boycotts against Danish goods," the paper said.

"These caricatures have clearly offended millions of Muslims around the world and it is for these reasons that we are apologising and offering our deepest regrets for what has happened, which was not our intention."
http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/sto...706374,00.html
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Old 02-10-2006, 10:55 AM   #371
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm



"Thousands rallied in Malaysia's capital as their PM spoke
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign policy.
Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as congenital terrorists. "
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Old 02-10-2006, 06:19 PM   #372
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another cartoon
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Old 02-10-2006, 06:52 PM   #373
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Upping the ante?

Holocaust Cartoon Contest In Iran

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A prominent Iranian newspaper says it is going to hold a competition for cartoons on the Holocaust to test whether the West will apply the principle of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide against Jews as it did to the caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.
When will the madness end?!
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:01 PM   #374
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Originally posted by financeguy
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm



"Thousands rallied in Malaysia's capital as their PM spoke
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign policy.
Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as congenital terrorists. "
Oh, so some of the anger is towards U.S. foreign policy, I'm sure, especially towards our pro-Israel policy, which they feel is anti-Palestinian. That along with the anger over the cartoon just exploded into psychotic displays of hatred. The whole thing was downright scary.
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Old 02-11-2006, 04:15 PM   #375
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The latest news as protests continue.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...icatures_x.htm
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