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Old 02-06-2006, 08:12 PM   #286
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Originally posted by financeguy
http://home.eircom.net/content/irela...view=Eircomnet

Seemingly, it is possible to display representations of the Prophet without getting a violent reaction.
Comments on this anyone?

Nah, guess we're too busy damning those awful bloody Muslims.
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:25 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
Substitute the word "Muslim" for "Communist" in A_Wanderer's comments in this thread. Then re-read.


"I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration , Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids... "
-Base Commander Ripper
Tried it and the response makes no sense, communist dictators ran cults of personality where their faces where splashed all over the place. If you are trying to infer a sinister anti-Muslim prejudice at play then argue it out point by point and offer a refutation, hell selectively quote to create an image. Just putting it out there with dubious evidence - show which posts are paranoid please, produce the evidence.

Communists don't work, the best fit for replacement I can figure is if I was rallying against the roundheads because puritanism is the closest fit.

Oh I know maybe it is a Straussian neo-con thing like in "The Power of Nightmares" where we groupthink "The Eternal Muslim" to make the case for perpetual war against the "primative".

Heres a set posts of varying degree and taken out of this thread.
Quote:
But does the existence of a majority of people that don't want to outright kill people negate the existence of groups openly proclaiming this?

We shouldn't generalise and I am not generalising - I have linked to groups that explicity demand this and shown protests that are advocating this (in England). These groups follow an ideology - not all of them are wahhabist - and they pop up all over the world; Palestine to Kashmir, London to Sydney.
See I don't just pile on Islam or even Salafi's, now dealing with Qutbis gets a bit more specific but it is not a Ein Volk, Ein Ummah, Ein Prophet Nazi comparison of the world of Islam which fails on the basis of being too general and having the evidence of a minority encompass a majority that does not fit the totalitarian contention
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Well they were just off the top of my head but the point is that it is all so very mockable. These guys are threatening violence, I see nothing wrong with taking their demands to butcher blasphemers literally for humerous purposes. Hell we can write jokes about any number of stupid things that some believers do - like taking sex advice from a septuagenarian virgin who dresses in gender ambiguous vestments, kissing holy stones of various types, engaging in rituals that involve biting the heads off live chickens, beating the shit out of the gay guy out of fear, beating their wives lightly because thats what their leaders tell them to do or those great rare cases where people follow spiritual advice and abandon conventional treatment only to find out that there is nothing to be done when their health problems get critical.

Fuck them all and lets get some saveage mockery to knock all that self-righteous superiority complex of professing believers down the proverbial peg.
Quote:
Maybe they aren't "true Muslims" but they believe that they are and that anybody that differs is an infidel or apostate.
Quote:
Now the real question is the cartoon depicting Mohammed with a lit fuse on his explosive headgear art imitating life or is the Islamic worlds response life imitating art.

How comfortable are these people with their faith if they go crazy at a small slight - affirming their faith through violence, perhaps by getting deep into scripture and pronouncements it gives to much intellectual credit to the man who gives his 20 month old a "I *heart* Al Qaeda" bonnet. In societies and social groups where religious freedom exists robust dicussion can take place and people elect their beliefs or at least have a right to - given a societal change towards religious freedom I wonder how many would abandon their faith outright.
"these people" refered specificly to the followers of Omar Bakri Mohammed who were marching through the streets demanding death to those who blaspheme their prophet
Quote:
there is no right to not be offended. For believers to once again gratify the notion that they are special by getting the idea that they are entitled to live in an innofensive world is wrong. They can turn around and start fighting those who don't agree with that premise but they will only look stupid and we love the fight.

Perhaps there is a bit of an overarching social theory to this? The American Culture Wars are a mono-cultural microcosm of what is happening on a global level.
Belivers versus Unbelievers, people who believe in God have a lot more in common and will take common cause. Atheists and Polytheists rest firmly outside that Abrahamic set and as a result are fucked over by them.
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:02 PM   #288
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Lets quantify this systemic bias shall we?

I will use the word terrorist, as any Islamophobe will surely use statements repleate with terror when discussing Islam.

In all 20 pages the word terrorist or terrorists was used 10 times. 3 of these was inside a quote from an outside source. Of the remaining 7 Verte used it twice on page two (in a post requoted on page 19), Teta040 used it once to state that terrorists are fringe groups on page 17, Achtung Bono used it twice tp say
Quote:
The newspaper was right in depicting the prophet Muhammed as a terrorist because that is the way most people perceive Muslims as - terrorists and fanatics who commit atrocoties in his name.

I'm sad to say that the reaction in the Arab world to this harmless drawing only serves to purpetuate the myth that all muslims are bloodthirsty terrorists and criminals - which is utterly not true."
And I used it twice once to say that the protestor with feminine hands was a man because they were dressed more like a "Hamas terrorist" than in elegent female clothing on page 14, one on page 10 stating a case where an IDF spokesperson say "terrorist" and the quote is printed in the paper as "millitant".

Now can we quantify the systematic anti-Muslim and anti-Islam bias that I am failing to see or for that matter find objectively. Only two times (in the same quote from AchtungBono) was it announced that people see Mohammed and Muslims as terrorists, and even then the adendum "which is utterly not true" demonstates intent.

Once again you have resorted to attacking my character rather than the validity of arguments, while not at the base level of some previous attempts, it is nontheless troubling.
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:05 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
Substitute the word "Muslim" for "Communist" in A_Wanderer's comments in this thread. Then re-read.



"I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration , Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids... "
-Base Commander Ripper
That quote was on my final exam for an international politics course I took last semester. We had to explain how that could be applied towards governments today.

Sorry side note.
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:11 PM   #290
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I just searched for the word "terrorism" on every page, a single example, on page two Yolland quoted a news article which used the word once.
Quote:
Nah, guess we're too busy damning those awful bloody Muslims.
Produce the evidence.
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:24 PM   #291
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,38...119665,00.html

[q]

7pm update
Danish embassy in Tehran attacked

Staff and agencies
Monday February 6, 2006

Guardian Unlimited
Hundreds of angry protesters threw stones and firebombs at the Danish embassy in Tehran today to protest against the publication of cartoons of the prophet Muhammad.

Police had encircled the embassy building but were unable to hold back up to 400 demonstrators as they pelted the mission with stones and incendiary devices.

So far the protesters have not breached the police cordon to get inside the structure, but they managed to throw a handful of firebombs over the building's high outer wall. The embassy had already been evacuated.

The Bush administration today condemned the violent protests against the cartoons that have taken place around the world and urged governments to take steps to lower tensions.

"We understand fully why people, why Muslims, find the cartoons offensive, and we've also spoken out about the importance of the right for people to express their views and freedom of speech in society," the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, said.

"Those who disagree with the views that were expressed certainly have the right to condemn them but they should be peaceful and we urge constructive dialogue about this difficult issue."

The caricatures were first published in Denmark in September and have since been republished in other newspapers in Europe and elsewhere. Muslims consider any images of the prophet to be blasphemous. One of the cartoons featured Muhammad with a bomb in his turban.

Some 200 Iranian student demonstrators also threw stones at the Austrian embassy in Tehran, breaking some windows and starting small fires. Austria was targeted because it currently holds the rotating presidency of the EU. Members of the Iranian parliament issued a statement warning that those who published the cartoons should remember the case of Salman Rushdie.

The late Iranian leader issued a "fatwa", or religious edict, in 1989 calling for Rushdie's death following the publication of his novel The Satanic Verses, which some Muslims found blasphemous.

Iranian radio and television also reported a series of boycotts of Danish medical equipment and consumer goods, and the suspension of trade negotiations with Denmark.

In Afghanistan, two protesters were shot dead and three other people, including two police officials, were injured in the central city of Mihtarlam when police fired on hundreds of demonstrators, an interior ministry spokesman, Dad Mohammed Rasa, said.

Meanwhile, Syria apologised to Chile after a mob set fire to the Chilean embassy in Damascus on Saturday while attacking the Danish embassy, which is in the same building.

In Romania, the country's main press organisation today urged all media not to publish the cartoons, and in Chechnya, the pro-Russian government banned Danish humanitarian organisations from the war-torn Muslim region in protest against the pictures.

Demonstrators threw stones at EU offices in the Gaza Strip and pulled down the EU flag.

In Yemen, a small newspaper, al-Hurriya, was closed down and its editor arrested for printing the caricatures, while in Warsaw, the editor of Rzeczpospolita - a Polish newspaper that reprinted the images - said that he was sorry if the publication had caused offence to Muslims, but defended it as an act of solidarity.

In Jordan, a majority of parliamentarians demanded that the government cancel agreements with Denmark, Norway, New Zealand and other nations where the drawings were published.

In Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, police fired warning shots to stop protesters from ripping a plaque from the wall of the US consulate in Surabaya, the country's second largest city, witnesses said. Hundreds of demonstrators threw rocks at the Danish consulate in the city before moving on to the US consulate.

In India, riot police fired tear gas and water cannons to disperse hundreds of student protesters who burned Danish flags and chanted slogans in New Delhi. Dozens of protesters torched Danish flags, burned tyres and shouted slogans in several parts of Srinagar, Kashmir, police said.

In Bangkok, about 400 members of Thailand's Muslim minority shouted "God is Great" outside Denmark's embassy, and some demonstrators stamped on a Danish flag.

In Malaysia, an editor of a newspaper that ran one of the drawings to accompany an article about the lack of impact of the controversy inside the country resigned, according to a statement seen Monday.
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2006[/q]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/06/news/islam.php
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:28 PM   #292
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Iran, Syria and Lebanon.

Iran and Syria are both police states who have gotten much closer to each other recently, Lebanon is still freeing itself from the Yolk of the Syrians and the militant Islamists in the country have a history of Syrian backing. There may be a bit more than coincidence that violence against the embassies is allowed to get out of control in these countries (in Indonesia there was action but no firebombings or severe violence).

This business sure is distracting though, the Iran governments have stopped the spot inspections and announced their going to enrich their uranium, and the press is bogged down with this. A whole four months after the cartoons were first published.
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:08 PM   #293
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The source of one of the extra cartoons that were toured around the Arab world has been found, these additional cartoons were said to have been from hate mail after it was pointed out that they were in fact not published in Jyllands-Posten, in fact the cartoon depicting their prophet Mohammed as a pig



was in fact a picture of Frenchman Jacques Barrot at a pig squealing championship in Trie-sur-Baise



From the spokesman of the tour Akhmad Akkari the extra "cartoons" were added to "give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims." Fine.
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:17 PM   #294
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More in the continuous campaign of bigotry and Islamophobia (sarc) portraying all Muslims as orcs in this thread
Quote:
We condemn the shameful actions carried out by a few Arabs and Muslims around the world that have tarnished our image, and presented us as intolerant and close-minded bigots.

Anyone offended by the content of a publication has a vast choice of democratic and respectful methods of seeking redress. The most obvious are not buying the publication, writing letters to the editor or expressing their opinions in other venues. It is also possible to use one’s free choice in a democracy to conduct a boycott of the publication, and even a boycott of firms dealing with it. Yet an indiscriminate boycott of all the country’s firms is simply uncalled for and counter-productive. We would be allowing the extremists on both sides to prevail, while punishing the government and the whole population for the actions of an unrepresentative irresponsible few.

We apologize whole-heartedly to the people of Norway and Denmark for any offense this sorry episode may have caused, to any European who has been harassed or intimidated, to the staff of the Danish, Norwegian and Swedish Embassies in Syria whose workplace has been destroyed and for any distress this whole affair may have caused to anyone.
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:43 PM   #295
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well loookie here! So the Israeles who did not publish the cartoons of mohommod and have been nutral are about to be mocked by non-other than...................




















The Iranians. A holocaust cartoon contest!!! And why should we not do anything about the middle east????

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117....html?from=rss

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Old 02-06-2006, 10:51 PM   #296
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Firstly it is more directed at continental Europe who have laws that ban holocaust denial (laws that incidently are contrary to the concept of unlimited free speech) and there are many who see that as hypocrisy (offending Muslims is alright but offending Jews is illegal - I would agree that such a position is hypocritical - the freedom to offend everybody is truly free).

Secondly the press in the Arab and Persian world is relatively restricted, so we should recognise that the anti-Israel cartoons with blood libels etc are all permitted forms of expression, you do not see the same criticism of the higher ups in the religious structures or the leader for life, as such official public opinion shouldn't be considered representative of the opinion of everybody.

Thirdly the response to these cartoons is not going to be anything like those over the ones of their prophet Mohammed. By trying to be edgy and ilicit a response only to find that they can't then it will definitely make the Iranian government look stupid, the fact that they will not recognise this is what would make it amusing.
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Old 02-06-2006, 11:34 PM   #297
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Old 02-07-2006, 01:12 AM   #298
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Fucking hell this is such a dumb thing.

I love how the same editor of the same Danish paper previously refused to run cartoons featuring Christ because he didn't want to offend people.
I love how those Islamic groups have gone mental and thus solidified the stereotype in the minds of many.
I love how there's all this barking over freedom of speech for such an absolutely bullshit reason.
Action. Reaction. 2nd Reaction. All three have been a load of shit and make you seriously wonder about what chance we genuinely have in our lifetimes.
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Old 02-07-2006, 01:34 AM   #299
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And when David Irving opens his mouth on the holocaust he isn't doing it out of a love of free speech but that doesn't make it any less protected.
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:03 AM   #300
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A_W, do you think the Nuremburg judges were wrong to give Julius Streicher the death sentence?
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