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Old 11-22-2006, 01:31 PM   #76
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What an obnoxious, arrogant, racist asshole! I hope his career is over and he loses all his money!

While all the other stuff is of course deplorable, the money thing alone is enough to make me dislike him. Famous people are lucky to get rich doing what they want for a living, putting down hard working people who haven't had that break is worse than low. Dennis Miller did it too, and I look down on him for it. He made some kind of comment to his neighbors who were complaining about him, saying he would always win any legal battles because he had more money than them and could buy all their houses. What a jerk.
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:37 PM   #77
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Originally posted by maycocksean
I don't know. . .

For some reason I just haven't been able to get as worked up with outrage over this incident as I should.

After all, I'm a black man who grew up in the southern United States. . . I've experienced my share of racial prejudice and hate. You'd think me of all people would be ready to crucify Richards.

And yet I'm not. . .

I'm not sure why but it could be because:

A). Having grown up around a lot of people who were racist but didn't think they were, who tried mightly to show that they were NOT prejudiced (usually by being friends with an "accessible" black guy like me sufficed), I guess I understand that not all racists are "created equal." A lot of racism is buried pretty deeply. . .the person himself may not even really he has it until something something sets him off and then suddenly it's not about a guy heckling him from the audience, it's about a BLACK guy heckling him from the audience. I think this may be what happened to Michael Richards.

B)I really do believe that the vast majority of people have some sort of racial prejudice. I know I have it (I'm not going to say against which racial groups but suffice it to say that after having lived overseas for close to 10 years I'm finding, to my horror, prejudiced thinking cropping up against some of the ethnic groups where I live) I don't believe that means racial prejudice should be "excused" but I think it's easy to get very self-righteous in condemning someone else who let's the prejudice slip into the open. How many people, honestly, when really angry or scared, slipped into attaching a racial adjective to the person we view as a threat.

The best way to combat racial prejudice, especially of this subtle, "buried" type, I believe, is to recognize it in ourselves, admit to it honestly, and refuse to allow those prejudices to go unchallenged and unchanged.

That's the battle I think Michael Richards is now having to face.



very well said.
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:39 PM   #78
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Originally posted by ntalwar


I can't see any member of U2 doing that at a show, no matter what is said.
a) what randhail said... you don't know what's hidden deep inside a person until it comes out. i could never see michael richards doing this up until he actually did it.

b) do we really need to bring u2 into everything? jeebus.
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:49 PM   #79
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase

b) do we really need to bring u2 into everything? jeebus. [/B]
Does anyone know if Bono was at the show...oh, forget it.
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:58 PM   #80
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Is it wrong to want to see Kramer meet Al Sharpton on pay per view or something like that? And Jerry's mother or Newman could mediate...



TMZ has learned that Michael Richards is reaching out to civil rights leaders, asking for forgiveness.

Uber-publicist Howard Rubenstein, who was hired just today by the "Seinfeld" star, tells TMZ that Richards was on the phone today with Rev. Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton, apologizing for his racial rant last Friday at L.A.'s Laugh Factory -- a rant captured on video and first shown on TMZ.

Rubenstein says Richards has made other phone calls today as well, expressing regret for his comments. Rubenstein says, "He's appalled at what he did and wants to start the healing process." Rubenstein adds, "Whether it be an attack on any racial group -- disguised or posed as humor -- he acknowledges it's horrible and wrong and he will never do that again."

Rubenstein says the calls were received "positively." Sharpton, however, stated publicly that he did not buy Richards' apology on Letterman.
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:42 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
I don't know. . .

For some reason I just haven't been able to get as worked up with outrage over this incident as I should.

After all, I'm a black man who grew up in the southern United States. . . I've experienced my share of racial prejudice and hate. You'd think me of all people would be ready to crucify Richards.

And yet I'm not. . .

I'm not sure why but it could be because:

A). Having grown up around a lot of people who were racist but didn't think they were, who tried mightly to show that they were NOT prejudiced (usually by being friends with an "accessible" black guy like me sufficed), I guess I understand that not all racists are "created equal." A lot of racism is buried pretty deeply. . .the person himself may not even really he has it until something something sets him off and then suddenly it's not about a guy heckling him from the audience, it's about a BLACK guy heckling him from the audience. I think this may be what happened to Michael Richards.

B)I really do believe that the vast majority of people have some sort of racial prejudice. I know I have it (I'm not going to say against which racial groups but suffice it to say that after having lived overseas for close to 10 years I'm finding, to my horror, prejudiced thinking cropping up against some of the ethnic groups where I live) I don't believe that means racial prejudice should be "excused" but I think it's easy to get very self-righteous in condemning someone else who let's the prejudice slip into the open. How many people, honestly, when really angry or scared, slipped into attaching a racial adjective to the person we view as a threat.

The best way to combat racial prejudice, especially of this subtle, "buried" type, I believe, is to recognize it in ourselves, admit to it honestly, and refuse to allow those prejudices to go unchallenged and unchanged.

That's the battle I think Michael Richards is now having to face.
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:49 PM   #82
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[Q]The best way to combat racial prejudice, especially of this subtle, "buried" type, I believe, is to recognize it in ourselves, admit to it honestly, and refuse to allow those prejudices to go unchallenged and unchanged.[/Q]

I would say it is a hard thing to recognizxe inside of ourselves. Everyone has something, and someone in here, Melon or Irvine made a post about there being a bigotry inside of us that we do not see. I cannot put it anywhere near as eloquently as they did.

Awesome post.
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:53 PM   #83
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Rubenstein says the calls were received "positively." Sharpton, however, stated publicly that he did not buy Richards' apology on Letterman.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...etterman&hl=en

I do think he is sincere.
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Old 11-22-2006, 04:36 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


a) what randhail said... you don't know what's hidden deep inside a person until it comes out. i could never see michael richards doing this up until he actually did it.
I guess it also depends on what it takes to make it "come out". Your example involved a physical fight. There was no physical altercation involved in this case that would cause someone to flip out.

As for his apology, I think he only did that after it aired online and on TV and at Jerry Seinfeld's urging. He also had a chance to apologize the following day at the club but did not.
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Old 11-22-2006, 06:41 PM   #85
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Surely that Richards apologised at all is something. Hey maybe it's entirely insincere and etc etc blah blah, but that the guy goes on tv the next night to apologise proves that he felt a social need to do so... ie. in general society does not condone this shit.

That's encouraging, and a fair enough balance... you will never know what is in people's hearts.
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:29 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
All this reminds me a bit of the Implicit Association Test battery which deep posted some links to awhile back. IAT is a generic methodology used to test "subconscious" associations with all kinds of categories--people, places, things--but what it's most famous for is its use in measuring associations with various racial groups. You have to work rapidly through a process of sorting/matching randomly mixed photos of (for example) white and black faces with conceptual words and symbols carrying "good" or "bad" connotations. According to the thinking behind it, the fewer subconscious negative associations you have with (e.g.) black people, the faster you should be able to match their faces with and/or disentangle them from "good"/"bad" associations. The test is interesting because many people's results are quite different from what they consciously believe in and think.

What you said reminded me of IAT because you (and earlier, Headache) described this sort of scenario where "suddenly it's not about a guy heckling him from the audience, it's about a BLACK guy heckling him from the audience" which I think sort of ties into this idea of subconscious associations--rage and fear tend to draw those kinds of things out, which is likely a hard-wired response (your brain goes into overdrive, seizing on every possible "known" "threat" or "weakness" of your adversary it can come up with). Probably all of us have had some experience of finding ourselves having (and possibly verbalizing) thoughts or "feelings" in such situations that it shocked or even repulsed us to realize we thought/felt at all afterwards--whether concerning the person's race, sex, age, body size, socioeconomic class, sexual orientation or whatever.
Quote:
I know I have it (I'm not going to say against which racial groups but suffice it to say that after having lived overseas for close to 10 years I'm finding, to my horror, prejudiced thinking cropping up against some of the ethnic groups where I live)
Do you think lack of social experience with those groups might have something to do with it? I wonder about this because one of the few suggestions the IAT test designers offer for people disturbed by their results is simply to make a concerted effort to be around and get to know more people of whatever relevant category. Not just one or two "accessible" individuals--more of an immersion strategy. That makes sense to me, because one ethnic group I can think of which I *suspect* I'd test as having significant negative associations with (no IAT for it) is one that I've simply had relatively little personal experience with--plus much of what I hear about them is negative, although I don't consciously believe any of it. (And I'm basing that suspicion on the fact that on the relatively few occasions where I've been around large numbers of, and/or seemingly "stereotypical" members of, said group, I find myself being more aware of the ethnic difference between them and me than I would be with people of other groups, and in turn vaguely uncomfortable with, and anxious about, that awareness. In other words, not just the usual mere intellectual recognition of Who-All Is Here...there's a sort of emotional dimension to it as well. To me, that's a red flag right there.)

Obviously it can work the other way too--a lifelong familiarity with a very-much-present (but perhaps socially distant--so maybe the same thing?) group with whom you hold many negative associations, can create the same result--but I do think in some cases that simple lack of personal exposure powerfully drives it.
Quote:
Having grown up around a lot of people who were racist but didn't think they were, who tried mightly to show that they were NOT prejudiced (usually by being friends with an "accessible" black guy like me sufficed)
That must be a pretty discomfiting feeling--I can sort of, very vaguely, relate to it but not much. Knowing that someone is trying unnaturally hard to like you for any other reason than that they just do like you--not a good feeling.


Anyhow, great post.
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Old 11-23-2006, 02:45 AM   #87
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I agree that Richards really did something awful. Unforgivable, though? No. I also feel that a man like Rev. Al Sharpton, who apparently claims to be a man of the cloth(however I have no idea what church he is affiliated with), should be following the WWJD rule here. Jesus spoke of forgiveness and turning the other cheek. How can a supposed Reverend turn his back on that idea? I think its because some of the supposed "civil rights leaders" are interested in perpetuating this kind of stuff. After all, if we got rid of racism, these guys would be out of a job. I'm sorry, but Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are no MLK.
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:56 AM   #88
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tmz.com

Did Michael Richards attack the Jews? Two Los Angeles residents have come forward and said that's exactly what happened last Spring at L.A. comedy club, The Improv.

Carol Oschin and J.P. Fillet say they were at The Improv on April 22 when Richards took the stage. They say that in the middle of Richards' skit, a man in the audience said something to the comedian, when Richards allegedly launched into an anti-Semitic rant. According to Oschin, Richards screamed at the audience member, "You fucking Jew. You people are the cause of Jesus dying."


Oschin says the rant continued and Richards stormed off the stage. Oschin and Fillet say that, at first, they thought Richards' tirade was part of his act, but claim that it quickly became apparent it was not.

Richards' publicist, Howard Rubenstein, confirmed to TMZ that Richards did make derogatory comments about Jews, but says it was part of his act. Rubenstein says Richards told him, "I'm not anti-Semitic. I was playing a role and poking fun at the rednecks."

http://us.video.aol.com/video.index....pmmsid=1775870
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Old 11-24-2006, 10:21 AM   #89
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He's a total racist and bigot, and any apology made by him is purely to clean up his tarnished image. He's only sorry that it got so much attention and has threatened his future.
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Old 11-24-2006, 05:08 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Richards' publicist, Howard Rubenstein, confirmed to TMZ that Richards did make derogatory comments about Jews, but says it was part of his act. Rubenstein says Richards told him, "I'm not anti-Semitic. I was playing a role and poking fun at the rednecks."
If this is true, then it kind of tends to confirm the perception that *part* of Richards' problem is that he doesn't have the proper knack, sensibility, presence--whatever you want to call it--to pull off something as precarious as racial humor to begin with, above and beyond whatever underlying racist impulses (and apparently, aggression-control problems) he might have as well. Granted, some kinds of jokes are never funny, but a skilled comedian with a lot of psychosocial savvy can draw upon the tensions and anxieties we all have about issues of race in a way that's thought-provoking and poignant, rather than offensive or just in general evoking "Uh...and your point here was what exactly?"-type reactions.
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