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Old 03-04-2005, 05:07 PM   #61
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Old 03-05-2005, 08:09 PM   #62
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This situation regarding the Korn guitarist is interesting. We have seen similar on-again, off-again occurrences, although to varying degrees, in the careers of such notables as Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, Van Morrison, and former members of Kansas.

I am curious, though, as to what people think about the conversion of "Head" to Christianity as opposed to the conversion of Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam to Islam, and his chosen alienation of his secular rock/secular music career. Is one culturally and artistically acceptable, and the other not? And I am hoping for answers from all sides on this.

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Old 03-05-2005, 09:10 PM   #63
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Sat Mar 5, 4:06 PM ET
AP

Pastor Ron Vietti, right, accompanied by other pilgrims, baptizes ex-metal guitarist Brian 'Head' Welch, 34, center, a founding member of the multi-platinum metal band Korn from the United States, at Jordan river's baptismal site near the Kibbutz Kinneret, in northern Israel, Saturday March 5, 2005. Welch was baptized in the Jordan river, just weeks after quitting his band, drug habits and rock-and-roll lifestyle for religion. Thousands of pilgrims are baptized annually in the revered river where according to the Biblical tradition, John the Baptist baptized Jesus. (AP Photo/Lefteris Pitarakis)[/q]
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Old 03-05-2005, 11:10 PM   #64
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Oh dear. I wonder what he'll do when the drugs wear off?
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Old 03-05-2005, 11:12 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
What a dolt ~trading sex, drugs and crappy music for Jesus.
I see it the other way around - at least now he won't inflict his crappy music on us anymore.
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Old 03-06-2005, 02:31 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
I am curious, though, as to what people think about the conversion of "Head" to Christianity as opposed to the conversion of Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam to Islam, and his chosen alienation of his secular rock/secular music career. Is one culturally and artistically acceptable, and the other not? And I am hoping for answers from all sides on this.

~U2Alabama
Why would anyone give a flying rats arse? I mean this honestly. I've seen departures of band members from a few bands I like, for different reasons. One in the case of Bush where Nigel Pulsford decided to simply walk away. The band disintegrated not long after. He chose family over the band. As a fan, that's annoying. But perspective cant let you have any real and deep seated problem with that. If Pulsford wanted to leave to follow a cult, it's the same thing. What really makes them leave a band is a personal thing, something we cannot attach ourselves to personally or emotionally. We dont know these people. And if anyone replies that if it were U2 we/I'd not be so sympathetic and open-minded, I will add that Bush have been more important to me musically than U2 have been for a few years now.

Good luck to Head and to Cat Stevens and anyone who follows a path that feels more 'right' and correct.
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Old 03-06-2005, 12:29 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Why would anyone give a flying rats arse?
I do apologize sincerely, Angela_Harlem. I mistakenly thought that we were discussing the conversion of Korn guitarist Head and his subsequent abandonment of Korn and the secular entertainment realm, and though it may be interesting to compare the situation to the perhaps parallel situation of Cat Stevens and his conversion to Islam. Sorry if I was ignorant enough the think that anyone would give a flying rat's arse.

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Old 03-06-2005, 01:16 PM   #68
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It had more to do with the fact that anytime a black celebrity converts to Islam, and becomes politically active, people get nervous. It is a more racist thing, than religious thing, IMO. If Cat was white, it wouldn't have been such a "controversy."

As to something other swere saying earlier--regarding why U2 were different, and why can't Head do what Edge did.

If you read his story again, you find the word "positive" splashed all over it. Plus, unlike many new converts, he said he still loves his former bandmates, and isn't saying 'I hope they find Jesus too or they'll go to hell." I think he left Korn less out of desire to stop being a rock musician than for the fact that he simply didn't see the other guys doing anything worthwhile and contructive with their lives or music.

It all comes down to this: what is your goal in being a rock musician? What do you ultimately want your music and band to accomplish? Most rock musicians simply want to write aobut the world around them, accepting it on thier own terms, and recording thier vision of it according to their worldview. Then they go from there. For them, it is enough that you are honest with yourself, your art, and your music, and if your vision is dark, than it is dark, but the act of recording and releasing it is an act of redemption. So many have said that the music itself was their salvation, from an otherwise dreary fate.

What is the "mission statement" of U2? You can find it in 2 places: in the lyrics of One, but first and foremost, in a ltter that Bono wrote to his Dad in 1981, not long after his baptism, that Flanagan published a few lines of in his book. It never fails to bring me to tears, for it is even more true now than it was 24 yrs ago.

"..Every day we read the Bible, worship, and let God work in our lives. This gives us our purpose and a strength that does not come from drink or drugs. I hope our lives will be a testament to the people who follow us, and to the record insustry, where never have there been so many lost and confused people gathered together in one place...all God wants is a willing heart and for us to call out to Him." Now, 24 yrs later, that is still entirley applicable to them, barring the drink in the pub or four, but I think Bono was speaking of habitual destructive drunkenness. The irnonc thing about Lypton Village and other young people going to these Christian worship services, Bible studies, etc in Dublin at that time was that the band spoke of it at first as an act of rebellion--as a way of rebelling against the "corrupt" hippies, they rebelled by going clean. It was a radical to go 360 degrees in the opposite direction. But some really ended up finding God in the process...it was the tail end of the "Jesus Freak" movement of the early 70's in America, reaching Britian 5-7 yrs late..everything took a lot more slowly to travel and "hit" in those days.

When Edge went away for those two weeks of "thinking", (prayer), he must have asked God about just what He wanted U2 to be. What was the purpose of U2? Why had God chosen to bring them to Him at that crucial time, after they were well established as a band and had just made such a stunning debut? I think that before those 2 weeks were up, Edge must have been getting strong "positive" signals about continuing to be a rock musician, but he must have also called in the other guys and they must have had a big conference about what U2's real purpose was. And in the end they all formed a radical idea: that they would not change the fundamentals of their songwriting--they would continue to record everything they saw around them, love, death, hope, sex, politics, fun, despair--the full gamut of life. They wouldn't revert to a "worship and praise" band--they would embrace what thelogans refer to the 'spirit of lament" as needed, a radical concept in Christian rock, it still is, as lament equals doubt, in onself if not in God, which would seem to equal loss of faith. Their basic position must have been: if the Psalms are in the Bible, and the openly sexual Song of Solomon, than we can sing about such things and still be "Christian", too. More importantly, they made the radical declaration to seperate their music from their private lives, that while their music would continue to be typical rock music, they would do their best to lead Christain lives and be a positive force for people to follow, in that regard. And while their music would remain "secular", they would infuse it with the Christian spirit of love and hope. The important thing is that they would be true and honest to themselves and their art, BUT at the same time infuse it with an overall general moral force.

The radicalness of this idea is that you could creatively and convincingly seperate the two, yet remain Christian--that God would note more your desire and efforts to do good and remin good, as long as that was your basic underpinning. The letter of the law was less important than the spirit, as long as you remained in service of the Spirit. Most Chritian musicians today still can't grasp this, and everyone must fall into one camp of the other. The letter of the law being more important.

When Head found the Lord, he must have asked the same question to himself--and eventually, to his bandmates--about Korn. "What is the purpose of this band? Are you trying to do anything constructive with your lives?" and they were simply going abott their old ways...drugs and self-destrctiveness, which he must have seen as a waste of their lives. And what did they want out of the band? It seems clear they never thought much about it. he seems infused with a desire to change things in some way. I find it so similar to Bono's spirit in those old days. "I willchage things or die trying." a strong ststement, and remarkably similar. He seems fired with a sense of purpose--to give back to God in some way, the peace and love that has been given him. THis is the "infatuation" stage, I admit, and as life goes on, he will come to maturity in his relationship with the Lord, and hae may even backslide..we all do at some poiht, being human. It;s like a strong marriage...you travel farhter and farther away from the honeymoon, real life intrudes, but as long as your relationshipis built on a sold foundation of love and respect and trust, that's what's needed, and the propose and love will still be there, not so put wardly bright, but inwardly stringer.
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Old 03-06-2005, 05:52 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teta040
It had more to do with the fact that anytime a black celebrity converts to Islam, and becomes politically active, people get nervous. It is a more racist thing, than religious thing, IMO. If Cat was white, it wouldn't have been such a "controversy."

But Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam IS white.

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Old 03-06-2005, 05:57 PM   #70
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Originally posted by U2Bama


But Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam IS white.

~U2Alabama
I was just thinking the same thing myself!

In terms of Cat Stevens it's an interesting comparison as he initially believed that Islam prohibited him from making a living in the popular music industry but more recently has said he was mistaken in that belief and re-recorded Father and Son with Ronan Keating.

Bob Dylan is another interesting comparison as you have said - I can't actually figure out what he considers himself now, he played for the Pope a few years ago but I have read elsewhere that he has returned to his Jewish roots, I'm not sure if that's correct.

The book "Walk On - the Spiritual Journey of U2" touches on the conversion experiences of a number of members of Bob Dylan's backing band in the late 70s or early 80's - I'm not sure if you've read it?
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:12 PM   #71
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Indeed, this is what he looked like on the old LPs my family had:



Perhaps Teta was thinking of raggae artist Jimmy Cliff?

I've seen this recently about the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens making a return to the secular realm as you have mentioned. I think he has even re-recorded "Peace Train," which 10,000 Maniacs removed from late pressings of their IN MY TRIBE album (after my inclusive copy of the CD was stolen in college, I searched record shows until I could find one with "Peace Train" (had to pay $25 for a used copy, but it's worth it).

I am certain that Dylan has, in the least, returned to his cultrual Judaism, as his children have been educated in the Jewish tradition. But I agree, I am not sure what he considers himself now. I read WALK ON last year and will have to go back and look at that passage about Dylan dand his band. It's a great book for sure; Stockman spoke at a church across the street from my office last year at Lent, but I was out of the office while he was in town.

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Old 03-06-2005, 06:14 PM   #72
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"Bob Dylan is another interesting comparison as you have said - I can't actually figure out what he considers himself now, he played for the Pope a few years ago but I have read elsewhere that he has returned to his Jewish roots, I'm not sure if that's correct. "

~financeguy


I believe Dylan returned to his Jewish roots by accepting Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. His lyrics since, I think, have reflected this belief.


A hymn he has performed in concert more than once the past few years:

Pass me not, O gentle Saviour,
Hear my humble cry;
While on others thou art smiling,
Do not pass me by.

Saviour, Saviour, hear my humble cry;
While on others thou art smiling,
Do not pass me by.

Let me at a throne of mercy
Find a sweet relief;
Kneeling there in deep contrition,
Help my unbelief.

Trusting only in thy merit,
Would I seek thy face;
Heal my wounded, broken spirit,
Save me by thy grace.

Thou the Spring of all my comfort,
More than life to me,
Whom have I on earth beside thee?
Whom in heav'n but thee?

~Fanny Crosby 1868
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:29 PM   #73
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OK...Cat Stevens..my bad.

I still think "Every Grain of Sand" is one of the greatest songs ever written.."In all things/I see the Master's hand/ In every leaf that trembles/in every grain of sand."

Dylan had his explicit "October" stage, but now he seems to be more neutral as well....I haven't heard Love and Theft (I know, I know, I HAVE to) would you say he is at the "Yahweh" stage right now?
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:38 PM   #74
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"Dylan had his explicit "October" stage, but now he seems to be more neutral as well....I haven't heard Love and Theft (I know, I know, I HAVE to) would you say he is at the "Yahweh" stage right now?"


With the above lyrics by Fanny Crosby(and other songs), I think he is still in the Jesus is Yahweh mode.
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Old 03-06-2005, 09:01 PM   #75
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I do apologize sincerely, Angela_Harlem. I mistakenly thought that we were discussing the conversion of Korn guitarist Head and his subsequent abandonment of Korn and the secular entertainment realm, and though it may be interesting to compare the situation to the perhaps parallel situation of Cat Stevens and his conversion to Islam. Sorry if I was ignorant enough the think that anyone would give a flying rat's arse.

~U2Alabama
You only need to apologise for unnecessary petulance
I dont understand why anyone would care about the conversions of Cat stevens and Whatisname Head. I really dont. What is it that makes it so interesting? Why not just accept it, be happy that they are, and move on?

Anyway..

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