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Old 05-15-2005, 08:20 AM   #1
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Koran + Toilets =

A hornets nest big time....

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapc...eut/index.html
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Old 05-15-2005, 03:49 PM   #2
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It's a shame that tolerance is so widely ignored in our world.

What's more disturbing is that these Islamic clerics believe that the actions of a handful of people, as offensive as these actions may have been, are worth starting a holy war over.

If we went to war evertime an idiot did something stupid, there would be more wars than people on the planet.

Btw, I've always loved the expression Holy War. Something of an oxymoron IMO...
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Old 05-15-2005, 03:51 PM   #3
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Is there actually conclusive proof that this occured? If not there could be a little lesson in media responsibility especially with stories like this.
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Old 05-15-2005, 03:57 PM   #4
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Media and responsibility? Do those two words belong in a sentance together? I wouldn't let a journalist hear you say that...

That's perhaps slightly unfair, I'm sure not all journalists are like that, before I get some horrible backlash by someone on here who's a journalist.

But yes, absolutely Wanderer. Sadly scaremongering sells...
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:06 PM   #5
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Seek and you shall find.
Quote:
Last Friday, a top Pentagon spokesman told us that a review of the probe cited in our story showed that it was never meant to look into charges of Qur’an desecration. The spokesman also said the Pentagon had investigated other desecration charges by detainees and found them “not credible.” Our original source later said he couldn’t be certain about reading of the alleged Qur’an incident in the report we cited, and said it might have been in other investigative documents or drafts. Top administration officials have promised to continue looking into the charges, and so will we. But we regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857154/site/newsweek/
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:13 PM   #6
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I believe the Pentagon about as much as I believe the media, which means I don't have a freakin' clue as to what happened. I remain neutral. Somewhere out there is truth. I just don't know who is telling it.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:23 PM   #7
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
I believe the Pentagon about as much as I believe the media
I'd probably agree. I'm not American, I'm British, but from what I have read the US government is about as credible as the British government. Read: liars.

I would also like to point out that I helped weaken the Labour Party's grasp on the country and reduce Mr Blair's majority in the recent general election by contributing to the ousting of the Labour MP for Cardiff Central
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Old 05-15-2005, 05:52 PM   #8
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[Q]WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Newsweek magazine said on Sunday it erred in a May 9 report that U.S. interrogators desecrated the Koran at Guantanamo Bay, and apologized to the victims of deadly Muslim protests sparked by the article.

ADVERTISEMENT

Editor Mark Whitaker said the magazine inaccurately reported that U.S. military investigators had confirmed that personnel at the detention facility in Cuba had flushed the Muslim holy book down the toilet.

[/Q]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...an_newsweek_dc

Personally I think this thread should be closed. I think people are too quick to find a way to portray the US in a certain light, and the sheer joy of posting this was too much to hold back.
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Old 05-15-2005, 05:59 PM   #9
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Personally I think this thread should be closed. I think people are too quick to find a way to portray the US in a certain light, and the sheer joy of posting this was too much to hold back.
I don't think that this thread should be closed. I don't see that anything wrong has been said here. People have commented on a story, the facts of which turned out to be wrong.

If anything, it has just reinforced Wanderer's comment that:

Quote:
there could be a little lesson in media responsibility especially with stories like this
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Old 05-15-2005, 06:26 PM   #10
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Am I missing something? How do you place a book on a Muslim toilet? There is a Mosque at my workplace and we have had a few slip and trip safety issues with the washbasins in the adjoining room so I have been inside as part of a safety audit. There is no way to put anything, bar your two feet either side, on a Muslim toilet.

Or were these Western toilets?
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Old 05-15-2005, 07:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Personally I think this thread should be closed. I think people are too quick to find a way to portray the US in a certain light, and the sheer joy of posting this was too much to hold back.
The wonderful part about free speech. It does reveal what people think or believe, even with inaccurate or unsubstantiated reports.
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Old 05-15-2005, 07:45 PM   #12
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l

they would never stoop to putting a Koran on a toilet.




Quote:
"If the rules of the Geneva Convention did not apply, what rules did apply?" asks Pelley.

"I don't think anybody knew that," says Saar.

And so, Saar said, some U.S. military intelligence personnel used cruelty, and even bizarre sexual tactics against the prisoners. Saar has written a book, "Inside the Wire," about his experiences at Guantanamo. Penguin Press will release it on Tuesday.

He told 60 Minutes about one interrogation in particular, in which he translated for a female interrogator who was trying to break a high-priority prisoner — a Saudi who had been in flight school in the United States.

"As she stood in front of him, she slowly started to unbutton her Army blouse. She had on underneath the Army blouse a tight brown Army T-shirt, touched her breasts, and said, 'Don't you like these big American breasts?'" says Saar. "She wanted to create a barrier between this detainee and his faith, and if she could somehow sexually entice him, he would feel unclean in an Islamic way, he would not be able to pray and go before his God and gain that strength, so the next day, maybe he would be able to start cooperating, start talking to her."

But the prisoner wasn’t talking, so Saar said the interrogator increased the pressure.

"She started to unbutton her pants and reached and put her hands in her pants and then started to circle around the detainee. And when she had her hands in her pants, apparently she used something to put what appeared to be menstrual blood on her hand, but in fact was ink," says Saar.

"When she circled around the detainee, she pulled out her hand, which was red, and said, 'I'm actually menstruating right now, and I'm touching you. Does that please your God? Does that please Allah?' And then he kind of got pent up and shied away from her, and she then took the ink and wiped it on his face, and said, 'How do you like that?'" Then, the interrogator sent the prisoner back to his cell with a message.

"She said, 'Have fun trying to pray tonight while there's no water in your cell,’ meaning that she was gonna have the water turned off in his cell, so that he then could not go back and become ritually clean. So he then therefore could not pray," says Saar.
interview with eye witness
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Old 05-15-2005, 10:27 PM   #13
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Re: l

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
they would never stoop to putting a Koran on a toilet.
Dunno who that was specifically directed at, if anyone but just to clarify I'm not commenting on whether anyone put any sacred books on the toilet. My comments were purely trying to determine if its possible to but a book on a specific toilet.

(Just in case my post came off the wrong way)
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Old 05-16-2005, 02:23 AM   #14
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Frankly I think that there is nothing wrong with using culture and religion in interrogations, they are weaknesses that are there to be exploited.
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:02 AM   #15
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i think we're missing the deeper issue here.

it's almost incidental as to whether or not the Koran was desecrated. what matters is that our White House sanctioned policies -- like Abu Ghraib -- have made such actions entirely possible in the minds of Muslims (and, indeed, many Americans).

that's the real issue.
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