Koran + Toilets = - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-16-2005, 08:04 AM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Does this boil down to "White House policies may offend Muslims"?
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 08:51 AM   #17
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 05:25 AM
Newsweek article

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 08:59 AM   #18
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:25 AM
no, this boils down to White House gives tacit approval to torture techniques, the more than 30 murders of inmates in US prisons in Iraq, Alberto Gonazales, speaking for the administration, holds that foreign prisoners "enjoy no substantive rights" under the Constitution or the Convention Against Torture. the widespread abuse and torture of detainees is not the actions of some rogue US troops, but it is all directly related to new rules of interrogation implemented by the white house. how do we know this? there were no instances of prisoner abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan and Guantanamo that were discovered in any military facilities that were not geared toward interrogation.

this is the biggest scandal in the US today, and it goes to the White House.

and those who are for the war should be the most enraged, because i can think of nothing that more undermines the stated purpose of the invasion in the first place.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 09:01 AM   #19
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:25 AM
The deeper issue is that Newsweek had no business publishing this based on what I have read.

The deeper issue is that the Muslim press is always quick to publish a negative about the US, but I am curious, will there be a correction in their press over the story?

The deeper issue is that so far, people are quick to blame the White House for the MISCONDUCT of soldiers, yet not so quick to acknowledge that the soldiers who ARE being punished for their ILLEGAL actions.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 09:05 AM   #20
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

The deeper issue is that so far, people are quick to blame the White House for the MISCONDUCT of soldiers, yet not so quick to acknowledge that the soldiers who ARE being punished for their ILLEGAL actions.

yes, the soldiers are being made scapegoats when in fact it goes much, much deper. and i don't think that the punishments are commensurate to the crimes that have been committed.

this goes all the way up to Gonzales, and i (as a citizen) demand accountability for crimes perpetrated IN OUR NAME that ultimately feeds into the worst imagined fears of Americans and ultimately makes us all less safe, both on the streets of East Coast cities and our soldiers in the field.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 09:06 AM   #21
Babyface
 
Jumpin' Jack Fl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Britain
Posts: 2
Local Time: 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by mtoreilly


I'd probably agree. I'm not American, I'm British, but from what I have read the US government is about as credible as the British government. Read: liars.

I would also like to point out that I helped weaken the Labour Party's grasp on the country and reduce Mr Blair's majority in the recent general election by contributing to the ousting of the Labour MP for Cardiff Central
I think it's shocking that so many people in Britiain are prepared to instantly call Blair a liar over all of this, particularly when so few people were against the whole fiasco in Iraq when it first began. And may I remind you that we are U2 fans - Labour are the ones who have delivered the most on global povery and will almost certainly continue to do so. Just be grateful it's not the bloody Conservatives.
__________________
Jumpin' Jack Fl is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 09:29 AM   #22
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:25 AM
i sincerely hope that the Media will not have their heads so far up their assess that the story becomes about Newsweek when it should be about interrogation techniques that are tantamount to torture that result in scores of dead prisoners.

however, i'm sure the Right Wing echo chamber -- Drudge to Limbaugh to Hannity to Fox -- will make sure that things like torture are the fault of the "liberal" media. you know, reporting on bad things is the same thing as supporting iraqi insurgents.

this country is so fucking Orwellian these days i'm terrified. drunk on power, we're setting ourselves up for a fall of Shakespearian dimensions.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 10:18 AM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 02:25 AM
You are arguing two separate issues.

We should not gloss over media irresponsibility on this basis.

It is also Orwellian that we immediately accept whatever Newsweek prints as gospel truth.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 10:26 AM   #24
The Fly
 
mtoreilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 113
Local Time: 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Jumpin' Jack Fl


I think it's shocking that so many people in Britiain are prepared to instantly call Blair a liar over all of this, particularly when so few people were against the whole fiasco in Iraq when it first began. And may I remind you that we are U2 fans - Labour are the ones who have delivered the most on global povery and will almost certainly continue to do so. Just be grateful it's not the bloody Conservatives.
Apart from the fact I didn't actually call Blair a liar, I called the British government liars, he is a liar. It's not a word I use lightly, particularly when talking about such important issues. He did lie about the reasons for Britain joining in the war in Iraq, and he has continued to lie and mislead the British people - and yet they still managed to vote him into power a week and a half ago.

Particularly when so few people were against the whole fiasco when it began? You clearly don't remember the numerous protest marches where thousands of people marched round cities in the UK to show their disapproval for it. I was completely and utterly against it from the outset, as I was with the invasion of Afghanistan. As a citizen of a supposed democracy I have every right to ask the government to be held accountable for their actions.

The fact that I am a U2 fan does not mean I have to buy into everything the band believes politically and socially. In fact, I'm somewhat offended at the suggestion that I should. Don't get me wrong, in general I do agree with many things Bono/the band says, and I am firmly in support of ending poverty in our world. And yes, the Labour government have taken some good first steps towards making that happen. Sadly, that doesn't make them any less rubbish at other things.

I didn't want a Labour government, but I wanted a Conservative government even less. But I knew they'd never get into power because, and all credit to them for managing it, in Michael Howard they managed to find a leader who is even less likeable than Blair.
__________________
mtoreilly is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 10:32 AM   #25
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
You are arguing two separate issues.

We should not gloss over media irresponsibility on this basis.

It is also Orwellian that we immediately accept whatever Newsweek prints as gospel truth.


i see the opposite. no one accepts Newsweek -- or anyone else -- as gospel. it's a news organization, and they report, and they make mistakes. this is nothing new, and Newsweek has retracted.

however, what is going to happen is that the echo chamber, with prompting from the administration, is going to treat this as an "example" of the "liberal" media out to undermine the war in Iraq, when a single magazine has no such ability, nor was that the intention in the first place.

what is Orwellian, to me, is to take a mistake made by Newsweek and then spin it in an Orwellian fashion to create even more "enemies within."
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 11:30 AM   #26
War Child
 
najeena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: an island paradise
Posts: 995
Local Time: 10:25 AM
According to CNN, Newsweek has only partially retracted it's story, there being some question about the source (Curveball, anyone?). Whatever the truth, the story mirrors the abusive tactics used by the US government on detainees.
__________________
najeena is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 12:49 PM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Of course, we have skipped right over the issue of: "would you hurt someone for placing a book (even a Bible or Quran) on a toilet?"
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 01:02 PM   #28
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:25 AM
^ i don't understand the question.

the people who are hurt -- more like offended -- by the Koran in the toilet aren't US soldiers but detainees, and muslims "everywhere" (not all Muslims, but enough to riot in Afghanistan).

at the end of the day, i think the people who will be most hurt are those already dead in Afghanistan, and the American soldier (or troops from other nations, though they dont' seem to have the same issues with interrogation "techniques" as we do ... with the exception of a few UK soldiers, i think) who is now more at risk as a result of administration-approved interrogation tactics that are not limited to the flushing of the Koran (whether true or not) and include the torturing of over two dozen detainees to death, wrapping one in an Israeli flag, smearing naked detainees with fake menstrual blood, telling one detainee to "Fuck Allah," and ordering detainees to pray to Allah in order to kick them from behind in the head. all this was detailed in a NYT article and comes from eyewitness testimony.

we have a big problem here, and it isn't Newsweek's reporting.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 01:37 PM   #29
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 10:25 AM
I just got back into town from a trip to New York City. My sister had a wedding party over the weekend. I have heard nothing about this because I didn't watch any television or see any newspapers whilie I was there. Apparently the Newsweek story claimed that the soldiers put Korans in toilets? Good grief.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 01:43 PM   #30
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

this goes all the way up to Gonzales, and i (as a citizen) demand accountability for crimes perpetrated IN OUR NAME that ultimately feeds into the worst imagined fears of Americans and ultimately makes us all less safe, both on the streets of East Coast cities and our soldiers in the field.
None...zero....zip.....

of the Gonzales memos indicate an endorsement of Abu G.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com