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Old 11-13-2007, 08:59 PM   #31
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"Police in NYC..chased a boy thru the park..in a case of mistaken identity, put a bullet thru his heart

The Stones, "Heartbreaker"
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:15 PM   #32
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and the relevance of that is... ?
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:29 PM   #33
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They just wanted to show off their google lyrics skills.
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:18 PM   #34
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Actually the incident reminded me of the song (which I already knew). Sorry if it was out of line.
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Old 11-15-2007, 07:12 AM   #35
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who ever said its hard to shoot someone in the arm or leg for a cop, well its their JOB. I'm sure how to handle a gun is of HIGH importance when they're walking around with guns and licence to shoot if they need to.
You don't NEED to shoot to kill. That is why we have a LEGAL SYSTEM to deal with offenders, not some cops who 'don't know how to shoot'
Give them training in it, a bullet to the leg is going to get them to stop, a bullet in the arm will make them drop the gun etc, lets not aim for the head or heart, because you know what, you're a man or a woman, you're not a fucking God and you don't have the right to take someone else life just because you wear a blue uniform and wow, did some training and can run that half a mile.

too much power.
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:01 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC
This is starting to sound like a definite suicide-by-cop incident.

http://us.cnn.com/2007/US/11/13/ny.shooting/index.html

Very bizarre.
Sounds more like a little cover your ass by the police to me. If I hear a non-cop witness mention the knife, or the "come & get me" business I'll change my mind...until then I'm sticking with trigger-happy.

Can't wait to hear what Al Sharpton has to say.
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Old 11-16-2007, 12:09 PM   #37
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
who ever said its hard to shoot someone in the arm or leg for a cop, well its their JOB. I'm sure how to handle a gun is of HIGH importance when they're walking around with guns and licence to shoot if they need to.
You don't NEED to shoot to kill. That is why we have a LEGAL SYSTEM to deal with offenders, not some cops who 'don't know how to shoot'
Give them training in it, a bullet to the leg is going to get them to stop, a bullet in the arm will make them drop the gun etc, lets not aim for the head or heart, because you know what, you're a man or a woman, you're not a fucking God and you don't have the right to take someone else life just because you wear a blue uniform and wow, did some training and can run that half a mile.

too much power.
in the world of lollipop forrests and gumdrop rivers, every cop would be a skilled marksman.

unfortunately we live in reality, where police departments don't have the time or resources to train every officer to shoot like an olympic sharpshooter.

honestly... some of you need to stop watching action flicks. shoot him in the arm to get him to drop the gun? gimmie a break. and you do realize that someone can still die from being shot in the leg, yes?
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Old 11-16-2007, 12:46 PM   #38
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You don't need to be an Olympic sharpshooter to hit someone in the leg from 20 feet. Especially not if there are 5 of you willing to pump 20 shots at somebody.

Gangbangers in Harlem with no training whatsoever could make that shot. Shit, I could probably make that shot.

You're acting like shooting a gun is some kind of magical skill that requires years and years of specialized training.

Someone can die from it, sure. But the likelihood of dying from being shot in the chest a half-dozen times is a whole fuckin' lot higher.
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Old 11-16-2007, 12:50 PM   #39
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I don't think hitting someone in the leg is quite as easy as you're making it out to be. There just isn't as much to shoot at in the leg as compared to the torso. It would be even harder if the person is moving around.
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Old 11-16-2007, 12:56 PM   #40
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Whatever, I've never fired a real gun before so I really don't know.

What I'm trying to tell you people, although it seems to be going in one ear and out the other, is that shooting to kill (especially in this case) was NOT necessary.
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Old 11-16-2007, 02:06 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC
You don't need to be an Olympic sharpshooter to hit someone in the leg from 20 feet. Especially not if there are 5 of you willing to pump 20 shots at somebody.

Gangbangers in Harlem with no training whatsoever could make that shot. Shit, I could probably make that shot.

You're acting like shooting a gun is some kind of magical skill that requires years and years of specialized training.

Someone can die from it, sure. But the likelihood of dying from being shot in the chest a half-dozen times is a whole fuckin' lot higher.
Police officers are not trained to wound, they are trained to use deadly force when necessary. Right or wrong, you will never see a police officer shoot someone in the leg or arm, not because they aren't capable of it, but because their training and departmental rules direct them to use deadly force when they feel their life or the life a fellow officer is threatened.

There are a lot of badly trained cops out there Dave and a lot of cops who should probably not be patrolling the streets, but there are also a whole lot of very dedicated, honest cops who take their training very seriously and do the best job they can in some very scary situations.

And believe it or not, killing someone in the line of duty is a very traumatic experience for most cops, especially in a suicide by cop scenario or when the suspect turns out to be unarmed. They don't just walk away high-fiving each other saying "good job." Nightmares, flashbacks, guilt about the deceased person and his/her family, questioning their judgment, it all happens, which is why most departments require you to see a shrink before you are cleared for active duty again after a shooting.

I hope all of true facts come out in this case and if the officers are found to be in the wrong, I hope they are dealt with appropriately. But at this stage, I don't think any of us can really say what these cops should or should not have done in this situation.
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:18 PM   #42
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife


Police officers are not trained to wound, they are trained to use deadly force when necessary. Right or wrong, you will never see a police officer shoot someone in the leg or arm, not because they aren't capable of it, but because their training and departmental rules direct them to use deadly force when they feel their life or the life a fellow officer is threatened.

There are a lot of badly trained cops out there Dave and a lot of cops who should probably not be patrolling the streets, but there are also a whole lot of very dedicated, honest cops who take their training very seriously and do the best job they can in some very scary situations.

And believe it or not, killing someone in the line of duty is a very traumatic experience for most cops, especially in a suicide by cop scenario or when the suspect turns out to be unarmed. They don't just walk away high-fiving each other saying "good job." Nightmares, flashbacks, guilt about the deceased person and his/her family, questioning their judgment, it all happens, which is why most departments require you to see a shrink before you are cleared for active duty again after a shooting.

I hope all of true facts come out in this case and if the officers are found to be in the wrong, I hope they are dealt with appropriately. But at this stage, I don't think any of us can really say what these cops should or should not have done in this situation.
Char said it perfectly.

It's easy to say what we think we'd do in this or that situation, but when you are actually IN that situation, it totally changes. Ask anyone who's ever had a gun drawn on them.
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:14 PM   #43
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife


And believe it or not, killing someone in the line of duty is a very traumatic experience for most cops, especially in a suicide by cop scenario or when the suspect turns out to be unarmed. They don't just walk away high-fiving each other saying "good job." Nightmares, flashbacks, guilt about the deceased person and his/her family, questioning their judgment, it all happens, which is why most departments require you to see a shrink before you are cleared for active duty again after a shooting.


[q]The California Highway Patrol (CHP) is developing training for suicide awareness and prevention after eight troopers killed themselves in eight months last year, for a total of 13 since September 2003. The CHP toll is "the largest cluster I've seen for a department that size," says Robert Douglas, executive director of the National Police Suicide Foundation.

The International Association of Chiefs of Police is circulating a proposal, obtained by USA TODAY, to make suicide prevention tools available to all of the nation's nearly 18,000 state and local police agencies. "Current police culture … tends to be entirely avoidant of the issue," leaving suicidal officers with "no place to turn," a draft of the proposal says.

The suicide foundation says it has verified an average of 450 law enforcement suicides in each of the last three years, compared with about 150 officers who died annually in the line of duty. Douglas says no more than 2% of the nation's law enforcement agencies have prevention programs.

Suicide rates for police — at least 18 per 100,000 — are higher than for the general population, according to Audrey Honig, chief psychologist for the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

Large departments (New York City, Milwaukee) and small ones (Holland, Ohio; Lavallette, N.J.) had suicides last year.

Police departments in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and the Washington State Patrol are among the few agencies with comprehensive programs, including videos, brochures and posters, peer-support training, coaching on warning signs and psychological outreach.

The Los Angeles sheriff's program started in 2001. Since 2002 the force has had just two suicides among its 9,000 officers. "Our personnel are receptive to getting assistance when they need it," Honig says.

In the past, law enforcement suicides often were ruled accidental deaths, and they are still underreported, Dansie says. "Most of us agree that the statistics are probably much higher than we actually know, because of the shame factor."

[...]

Steve Martin, a 6-foot-6, well-liked veteran of the Wichita force, was 44 when he shot himself on Halloween 2005. Debbie Martin says she tried repeatedly to get her husband into counseling.

"He kept canceling the appointments," she says. "He said he was afraid the department would find out he was going, that he had a serious drinking problem, and he'd be fired."

Martin couldn't leave the job at the station, and what he saw over 15 years, several on a gang unit, began to wear him down, his wife says. He couldn't let go of one incident — finding a 2-year-old girl in a car, shot in the head after a gang shootout.

The couple separated but spent a lot of time together. Martin was drinking daily, cursing his job, she says. He threatened her and once pulled his gun on her.

Martin's suicide threw the force of 690 officers into turmoil. "A lot of people were in denial," says Lt. Sam Hanley, his former sergeant. "A lot of them were angry at Steve himself, because they worked with him and he hadn't said anything."

Hanley was ordered to develop suicide-prevention training, and Wichita officers attended mandatory four-hour sessions.

"Suicide has always been kind of hush-hush in the police community," he says. "When it happens to one of your people, all of a sudden everybody wants information."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...suicides_x.htm

[/q]
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:01 PM   #44
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Gangbangers in Harlem
not that it matters but harlem has become a relatively safe neighborhood. you'll find many more "gangbangers" in the bed-sty neighborhood where this incident occured than you will in harlem, or even out on long island.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:32 PM   #45
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not that it matters but harlem has become a relatively safe neighborhood. you'll find many more "gangbangers" in the bed-sty neighborhood where this incident occured than you will in harlem, or even out on long island.


What do I know about gangs in NYC? I was just trying to make a point.

Although I was actually quite pleasantly surprised with how nice Harlem is. Especially beautiful during an evening snow storm. I wouldn't mind living there.

And it's a lot less scary than being lost in South Bronx at 10:30 on a Friday night
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