Kids Today: More Confident, Assertive, Entitled — and More Miserable

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Irvine511

Blue Crack Supplier
Joined
Dec 4, 2003
Messages
34,498
Location
the West Coast
as someone born in 1977, i found this article very, very interesting, and very relevant. i would suspect that a majority of U2 fans were born in the 1970s, and as such, there might be a whole lot of interest. and those who are older might well be parents today, which could add an interesting dimension to the discussion that i hope will follow. i've excerpted the most interesting parts, but i'll post a link to the whole article:



[q]Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University, examines the generation of Americans born after 1970 in her book, “Generation Me: Why Today's Young Americans Are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled — and More Miserable than Ever Before.” Twenge argues that younger people are more self-assured than their parents, but they also more depressed. She bases her argument on 14 years of research comparing the results of personality tests given to boomers when they were under 30 to those of the Gen-Me cohort today. Twenge, invited to appear on the “Today” show, places much of the blame on the self-esteem movement of the last few decades. Here’s an excerpt:

Linda's Baby Boomer generation grew up in the 1950s and early 1960s, taught by stern, gray-suit-wearing teachers and raised by parents who didn't take any lip and thought that Father Knows Best. Most of the Boomers were well into adolescence or adulthood by the time the focus on the self became trendy in the 1970s. And when Linda and her friends sought self-knowledge, they took the ironic step of doing so en masse — for all their railing against conformity, Boomers did just about everything in groups, from protests to seminars to yoga. Their youthful exploration also covered a very brief period: the average first-time bride in the early 1970s had not yet celebrated her 21st birthday.

Today's under-35 young people are the real Me Generation, or, as I call them, Generation Me. Born after self-focus entered the cultural mainstream, this generation has never known a world that put duty before self. Linda's youngest child, Jessica, was born in 1985. When Jessica was a toddler, Whitney Houston's No. 1 hit song declared that "The Greatest Love of All" was loving yourself. Jessica's elementary school teachers believed that their most important job was helping Jessica feel good about herself. Jessica scribbled in a coloring book called We Are All Special, got a sticker on her worksheet just for filling it out, and did a sixth-grade project called "All About Me." When she wondered how to act on her first date, her mother told her, "Just be yourself." Eventually, Jessica got her lower lip pierced and obtained a large tattoo on her lower back because, she said, she wanted to express herself. She dreams of being a model or a singer. She does not expect to marry until she is in her late twenties, and neither she nor her older sisters have any children yet. "You have to love yourself before you can love someone else," she says. This is a generation unapologetically focused on the individual, a true Generation Me.

[...]

Today's young people are experiencing that society right now, and they speak the language of the self as their native tongue. The individual has always come first, and feeling good about yourself has always been a primary virtue. Generation Me's expectations are highly optimistic: they expect to go to college, to make lots of money, and perhaps even to be famous. Yet this generation enters a world in which college admissions are increasingly competitive, good jobs are hard to find and harder to keep, and basic necessities like housing and health care have skyrocketed in price. This is a time of soaring expectations and crushing realities. Joan Chiaramonte, head of the Roper Youth Report, says that for young people "the gap between what they have and what they want has never been greater." If you would like to start an argument, claim that young people today have it (a) easy, or (b) tough. Be forewarned: you might need referees before it's all over.

[...]

Why the label Generation Me? Since GenMe'ers were born, we've been taught to put ourselves first. Unlike the Baby Boomers, GenMe didn't have to march in a protest or attend a group session to realize that our own needs and desires were paramount. Reliable birth control, legalized abortion, and a cultural shift toward parenthood as a choice made us the most wanted generation of children in American history. Television, movies, and school programs have told us we were special from toddlerhood to high school, and we believe it with a self-confidence that approaches boredom: why talk about it? It's just the way things are. This blasé attitude is very different from the Boomer focus on introspection and self-absorption: GenMe is not self-absorbed; we're self-important. We take it for granted that we're independent, special individuals, so we don't really need to think about it.

This is not the same as saying that young people are spoiled. That would imply that we always got what we wanted. Although some parents are indeed too indulgent, young people today must overcome many difficult challenges that their elders never had to face. While families could once achieve middle-class status on the earnings of one high school-educated person, it now takes two college-educated earners to achieve the same standard of living. Many teens feel that the world demands perfection in everything, and some are cracking under the pressure.
Many people reaching their twenties find that their jobs do not provide the fulfillment and excitement they had anticipated, and that their salary isn't enough to afford even a small house. There's an acronym that describes how this growing self-reliance can be stressful: YO-YO (You're On Your Own).

I am also not saying that this generation is selfish. For one thing, youth volunteering has risen in the last decade. As long as time spent volunteering does not conflict with other goals, GenMe finds fulfillment in helping others. We want to make a difference. But we want to do it in our own way. GenMe also believes that people should follow their dreams and not be held back by societal expectations. Taking a job in a new city far from one's family, for example, isn't selfish, but it does put the individual first. The same is true for a girl who wants to join a boys' sports team or a college student who wants to become an actor when his parents want him to be a doctor. Not only are these actions and desires not considered selfish today (although they may have been in past generations), but they're playing as inspirational movies at the local theater. These aspirations are also being touted by politicians, even conservative ones —such opportunities are what George W. Bush is talking about when he says that "the fire of freedom" should be spread around the world.

This is the good part of the trend — we enjoy unprecedented freedom to pursue what makes us happy. But our high expectations, combined with an increasingly competitive world, have led to a darker flip side, where we blame other people for our problems and sink into anxiety and depression. Perhaps because of the focus on the self, sexual behavior has also changed radically: these days, parents worry not just about high school sex but about junior high school sex.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12392877/

[/q]



i would love it if we could stay away from easy generalizations, and also from easy pronouncements (i.e., "focus on self-esteeem leads to spoiled children" when this clearly isn't the case). i'm interested in personal stories, and where this article might make sense, or where it seems totally divorced from your reality.
 
that article really impresses me, because I can see myself reflected on it. I was born in 1983, my parentes supported my talent and they thaught me to solve all my problems by myself. My dad always told me " there's no reason to fail, you can be the best in whatever you want to do " and , honestly, I believe him.

I'm not spoiled but I'm quite competitive, I applied to the best college here, got the best grades. I apply to contests and expositions, I take any chance to succeed. sometimes it is really stressfull and I had breakdowns.

I've never had many friends and I think that my actitude doesn't help, I like to get the credit for my work and I don't like to work in team. I don't want to have children, I don't want to get married, all I want to do is work and enjoy the benefits of it, keep learning new things, travel. Sometimes I'm affraid I won't get any of that and it is discouraging.
 
I generally agree with this article. The competition these days is insane. For instance, the average GPA of a student from my high school accepted into UVA was a 4.6!!!! The 100th person in my graduating class had above a 4.0 as well.

I on the other hand, struggled to end up with a 3.4, putting me smack in the middle at about 250th. At most schools this would be considered an excellent GPA, but instead I was looked down upon as a not so good student because of a 3.4!

We have to deal with being bombarded with information 24/7 through many different outlets, are expected to retain and understand this information, then apply it. The pressure to balance extracurriculars with a tough schedule, so much is expected of us and we get ridiculed as lazy.
 
Just out of curiosity, how is it possible to get above a 4.0 GPA? Is it AP and honors classes that get weighted differently?

Call me old fashioned, but I like the GPAs where a 4.0 is the highest. A 4.6 just seems to be pretty strange.
 
what i think is interesting is that the focus on self-esteem has also increased our sense of individuality (i think a good thing) while ratcheting up the pressure (not a good thing) and perhaps valuing personal responsibility to an unhealthy degree (kind of the opposite of the Conventional Wisdom about "kids today"). there is taking personal responsibility for one's actions, which i think we can all agree is a good thing, but that can be extended into taking personal responsibility for factors beyond one's control, which is not a good thing. it seems really simple, but the hardest lesson that i've had to learn over the past 5 years or so of being out in the "real world" is that, surprise, Life Isn't Fair. i think i was taught that if i worked hard, did my best, played fair, and was a good person, than all rewards would come.

often, they don't. and that's not my fault. (this is also not to complain about where i am in life, it's just that i'm surprised at how, shall we say, one makes one's own luck in life). though i often think that it's my fault, or there was something i could have done, or that there was something, somewhere, that i did wrong. i think my generation is guilty of crediting themselves too much for success, but also blaming themselves too much for failure and inability to live up to a near-impossible "ideal" -- and the blame for such failure, due to this focus on the self ("if you want to make the world a better place take a look at yourself and make a change"), we place directly on ourselves, thus prompting the questions of, "what's wrong with me."
 
Irvine511 said:
...the hardest lesson that i've had to learn over the past 5 years or so of being out in the "real world" is that, surprise, Life Isn't Fair. i think i was taught that if i worked hard, did my best, played fair, and was a good person, than all rewards would come.

often, they don't. and that's not my fault..."
I was taught the same thing Irvine, but I believe the answer is to redefine your idea of 'all rewards'. While it's true that it seems no good deed goes unpunished :slant:, do your family and associates know you as a person of integrity, honesty, and trustworthiness? Are you known as someone who treats others fairly, can be relied on when needed, and is compassionate? Have you stabbed anyone in the back to get to where you are in life or have you made up malicious stories about others to improve your own image? Do you do your best each day, not because you're being graded or watched, but because you take pride in your finished product?

I imagine the answers would be: yes, yes, no, and yes. If so, then you are being rewarded daily... maybe not in materiallistic ways, but in more important, intangible ways. Mr. Blu and I work very hard at our jobs, do our best not to live beyond our means, and work diligently to pay off our debts. We don't cheat our employers or friends, we're law-abiding and responsible. We contribute to charities when we can & have gotten involved with community outreach programs through our church.

We'll probably never be able to buy a home, car, boat, cruise vacation, etc. without the help of financing and our retirement years will be comfortable at best, probably a bit leaner than our current standard of living. Is it fair that we work our tails off & can't expect better? No, considering how many people work the system & live better than we do currently. But that's not my concern; the people that know me respect me as a decent human being and I can go to sleep at night with a clear conscience and no guilt over how I've treated my fellow human beings on any given day. I've learned over the last few years to see that as the true reward of hard work, dedication, and doing my best.

And when I start feeling sorry for myself and think more money or things would be the answer to my problems, I just think of all the folks who have won millions in the lottery, only to be miserable & bankrupt 2-3 years later. :shrug: Everyone - no matter how happy they may seem - has their own albatross to bear.
 
BluRmGrl said:

I was taught the same thing Irvine, but I believe the answer is to redefine your idea of 'all rewards'. While it's true that it seems no good deed goes unpunished :slant:, do your family and associates know you as a person of integrity, honesty, and trustworthiness? Are you known as someone who treats others fairly, can be relied on when needed, and is compassionate? Have you stabbed anyone in the back to get to where you are in life or have you made up malicious stories about others to improve your own image? Do you do your best each day, not because you're being graded or watched, but because you take pride in your finished product?


oh, i totally agree and very good points, i just think that people born after 1970 have been given very clear ideas of what "success" looks like, and are used to being told when they've done well, and also told when they've not done well and then steps they can take to recitfy their performance so that they will do better in the future.

it just doesn't seem as if the real world give you the kind of reinforcement we grew up getting in nearly all aspects of our micro-managed, self-improvement focused childhoods.

and i know, it's like "DUH!" obviously the world doesn't owe me, or anyone my age, a damn thing. but, as raising children has changed (as elucidated in this article), we're simply seeing a new set of issues and problems unique to this generation.
 
Irvine511 said:
... raising children has changed (as elucidated in this article), [and] we're simply seeing a new set of issues and problems unique to this generation.

I can agree with that. One of the larger problems that I see today (and we've touched on this some in other discussions) is the damage rather than good that's actually coming from the 'positive reinforcement' movement. Don't misunderstand - I think it is tremendously important to compliment your children on a job well done, or on a particular skill/task that they are very adept at, but do so sparingly. I don't approve of the ol' Catholic school 'you're a worm with no redeeming qualities, not worthy of forgiveness' type of child rearing, but kids need to learn that they can't always be the best, that sometimes they'll fail & they need to learn ways to deal with that early on.

Constant cheerleading from parents, teachers, etc. doesn't lead to well-adjusted, confident adults. It generally leads to a generation of spoiled, self-indulgent brats with serious entitlement issues... kinda' like we see a lot now.

I don't know the answer - Hell, I don't even have kids, so I probably should keep my 2 cents to myself here. Somedays the only thing that makes me happy when I see these little monsters in action, though, is the knowledge that they'll be in for a hard lesson when the 'real world' does come knocking on their door.
 
Wow, I really saw a lot of myself in those descriptions. For the record, I was born in '79.

I absolutely agree with Irvine re: life not being fair. Now when I think about it, I don't recall anyone ever suggesting to me that it was fair, and yet it was an assumption I made. That certain actions bring forth certain results and when that doesn't happen, it can be crushing.

My Mom, who was both a high school teacher and a professor throughout her long career in education says she's noticed the changes as well since starting to teach in the mid 70s. She said the main thing she sees today is that we have exponentially more choices and opportunities in life and a lot of people are getting lost along the way. She remembers back in the 70s where mediocre students were streamlined into the workplace or community colleges - basically everyone was encouraged to pursue an education and a profession which corresponded to their abilities. From each according to his need.... (thank you Marx). But these days we're encouraging all kids that they can have the world if they put their mind to it. Nothing is out of reach for anyone, and sometimes I wonder if we're boosting self esteem at the cost of realistic expectations. Sometimes it's important to realize your own limitations and the fact that this doesn't make you a worse person - why is it so bad to recognize that you are gifted at some things and not at others. The reality is, we can't have it all, but we are being told that we can and sometimes I know I bought into that as well. That's where any of my youthful misery came from - one day waking up and wondering where this promised land was.
 
anitram said:

But these days we're encouraging all kids that they can have the world if they put their mind to it. Nothing is out of reach for anyone, and sometimes I wonder if we're boosting self esteem at the cost of realistic expectations. Sometimes it's important to realize your own limitations and the fact that this doesn't make you a worse person - why is it so bad to recognize that you are gifted at some things and not at others.

We are struggling with this issue at my school. The school board/district administration would like every student to be enrolled in college prep classes. (including special education students) The thing is, our school offers little to no vocational education. Not every student is college bound and there is nothing wrong with that. As teachers, we continue to push for funding for vocational education.
 
You touched on an excellent point, Martina - Sometimes it's important to realize your own limitations and the fact that this doesn't make you a worse person . I believe the trick there is if you're going to tell little Suzy because she and science aren't good friends that she's probably not suited to being a doctor, because she likes designing and making her own doll houses she would be a great architect. Balance, you know? Again, here I am with the wonderful child-rearing advice & me a childless woman - I'm likely to get stoned! :ohmy: :D I just know what seems to work with my nieces, nephews, and friend's children. :shrug:
 
Last edited:
BluRmGrl said:

Constant cheerleading from parents, teachers, etc. doesn't lead to well-adjusted, confident adults. It generally leads to a generation of spoiled, self-indulgent brats with serious entitlement issues... kinda' like we see a lot now.



i agree with most of what you said, except for this part -- i don't think that we're, by default, spoiled brats. in fact, i think we're much harder on ourselves when we don't meet expectations than other generations, and we certainly work as hard as anyone in the past (at least when it comes to things like school, volunteering, etc., not, like, chopping firewood or walking uphill in the snow ;) ).

let me point out this part of the article:


[q]This blasé attitude is very different from the Boomer focus on introspection and self-absorption: GenMe is not self-absorbed; we're self-important. We take it for granted that we're independent, special individuals, so we don't really need to think about it.

This is not the same as saying that young people are spoiled. That would imply that we always got what we wanted. Although some parents are indeed too indulgent, young people today must overcome many difficult challenges that their elders never had to face. While families could once achieve middle-class status on the earnings of one high school-educated person, it now takes two college-educated earners to achieve the same standard of living. Many teens feel that the world demands perfection in everything, and some are cracking under the pressure.[/q]
 
WildHoneyAlways said:


We are struggling with this issue at my school. The school board/district administration would like every student to be enrolled in college prep classes. (including special education students) The thing is, our school offers little to no vocational education. Not every student is college bound and there is nothing wrong with that. As teachers, we continue to push for funding for vocational education.

That's a great point.

I'm a big fan of college because it's a great way to spend 4 years surrounded by your peers and (hopefully) participating in some critical thinking. But for many kids, it's absolutely the wrong thing to do. And these days, it's like everyone is getting BAs, which there is nothing wrong with, but many of these kids are getting them because nobody ever suggested that they have other choices.

Good example - my brother's two best friends. One of them was forced by his father to go to the best college in the country to study computer science. After the first year, he was on probation and transferred to an easier school where he was pulling Cs in with major difficulty. After that he dropped out completely, went to a community college and is now employed in the IT industry, but pretty much at a dead end $35K/year for life job. The other guy was always a mediocre student and his parents encouraged him to look at apprenticeships because he was always interested in working with his hands. He ended up doing a 3 year electrician's apprenticeship and now has his own business, drives a great car and is happy setting his own hours and proud that he has employees under his wing. You tell me which of these kids has a better life today and it isn't the one who spent a lot of time and $$ at a university when he may not have been fit for it.

But it's not as if a guidance counsellor would ever have suggested this to him. Not only that, but his father would probably have loaded a shotgun and gone and demanded why his child is "being held back."
 
I partly disagree with that, Blum. My parents encouraged me a lot, and I'm not spoiled at all... I work hard because I know I have a great potential and my parents were the ones who showed me that. I always try to reach new goals, demanding more from myself, some people say that it is unhealthy, and sometimes I agree, but I don't know if I would be happy in an "average" level. I learnt that I have all the tools to be excellent, why should I conform?
 
Last edited:
anitram said:



But it's not as if a guidance counsellor would ever have suggested this to him. Not only that, but his father would probably have loaded a shotgun and gone and demanded why his child is "being held back."

It's awful that people still feel pursuing a trade is "being held back." When my father's basketball scholarship to DePaul fell through because of knee injuries he started his pipe fitter's apprenticeship. My siblings and I grew up in a nice home with nice cars, went on vacations and to college. I don't think my dad feels "held back" at all. :wink:
 
Very interesting article - thanks for posting.

While the focus is on the generation born after 1970, I'd say this is more a recognition of a trend that started post WWII. With the end of the Vietnam war, and the realization that a requirement to serve one's country had ended, the full sense of entitlement set in.
 
nbcrusader said:
While the focus is on the generation born after 1970, I'd say this is more a recognition of a trend that started post WWII. With the end of the Vietnam war, and the realization that a requirement to serve one's country had ended, the full sense of entitlement set in.

Fighting a war doesn't give anyone the right to rape and pillage America. "The Greatest Generation" (what a romanticist concept if I ever heard one) burned every bridge they crossed.

The pursuit of happiness is often more fulfilling than actually having attained it. And there's the problem. Whereas the WWII crowd could pay cash for their houses with minimal education, everything is now so expensive that even mortgages are exorbitant.

Now try being born into that climate and see how optimistic you get. "Entitlement" is, frankly, a poor word used by arrogant Republicans to absolve themselves from guilt.

Melon
 
Prior generations waited until they could buy a house, and the age old tradition of burning the mortgage demonstrates that they didn't pay cash.

Will blaming Republicans revese the trend?
 
nbcrusader said:
Prior generations waited until they could buy a house, and the age old tradition of burning the mortgage demonstrates that they didn't pay cash.

Will blaming Republicans reverse the trend?

Does everything you argue have to end in a partisan spat? This isn't about "Republicans" or even politics.

I imagine, however, that someone born in 2006 will have a hard time ever buying a house with our exorbitant college tuition costs, piss-poor wages, and high housing costs. After all, it seems as if once things go up, they never go down.

It's much easier to blame everything on "entitlement" when you're born at the low end of the cost scale.

Melon
 
melon said:


Does everything you argue have to end in a partisan spat? This isn't about "Republicans" or even politics.

I imagine, however, that someone born in 2006 will have a hard time ever buying a house with our exorbitant college tuition costs, piss-poor wages, and high housing costs. After all, it seems as if once things go up, they never go down.

It's much easier to blame everything on "entitlement" when you're born at the low end of the cost scale.

Melon

As one who shoehorns a GOP angle on all too many threads, I find the accusation of "partisian spat" laughable.

And there is no "low end" of the scale. Prices always rise, and those of prior generations faced the same (or in some cases higher) inflation. Economically, we are far better off today than the stagflation faced by those trying to buy their house in the 70's (born in the 50's).
 
nbcrusader said:
As one who shoehorns a GOP angle on all too many threads, I find the accusation of "partisan spat" laughable.

At least my "GOP angles" have the full brunt of evidence behind them. Your excuse?

And there is no "low end" of the scale. Prices always rise, and those of prior generations faced the same (or in some cases higher) inflation. Economically, we are far better off today than the stagflation faced by those trying to buy their house in the 70's (born in the 50's).

I've already made this argument before, and I don't wish to repeat myself. However, if my grandparents' generation could buy a house with cash and work over the summer to pay for an entire year of private university, while my parents' generation could pay cash for a brand new car, I would say that your argument here has no teeth at all.

Melon
 
melon said:


At least my "GOP angles" have the full brunt of evidence behind them. Your excuse?



I've already made this argument before, and I don't wish to repeat myself. However, if my grandparents' generation could buy a house with cash and work over the summer to pay for an entire year of private university, while my parents' generation could pay cash for a brand new car, I would say that your argument here has no teeth at all.

Melon

NB always has rhetoric and attacks. Of course this is the habit when one can no longer defend ones position. (in this case it goes to legal as well as moral).
 
this generation has never known a world that put duty before self.
I think this more or less summed up the article for me. A sense of obligation towards something larger than yourself can be ugly and destructive when it's instilled through fear, forced subjection and shame, but it can also be a tremendous source of stability, motivation and strength when taught with love, trust and faith in the greater good. If your only goal is your own success--and I mean that in the self-critical, "prove-yourself" sense, not "hedonism" or whatever--then not only your capacity for humility and self-sacrifice, but just as important, your capacity to find satisfaction and contentment from your accomplishments will suffer. "Be the best you can be" is way too vague and circular a philosophy for most people to build a grounded life around.

Most likely the fact that the Baby Boomers were "taught by stern, gray-suit-wearing teachers and raised by parents who didn't take any lip" (and that they "did just about everything in groups") has a lot to do with why they often found creative tension and liberation in freedoms many of us have more often experienced as unsatisfying and hollow. I remember taking a seminar on pedagogical methods in grad school, taught by a (Baby Boomer) professor who was constantly waving his bible, Rorty's Contingency, Irony and Solidarity, at us while heralding the end of essentialist thought and how this was going to "liberate" us as teachers to explore and develop new forms of consensus, new forms of community based not on everyone sharing a common worldview, but rather a common need to talk as if we did (that's not how he put it, but that's pretty much what it boiled down to). To him, this was a grand predicament to be in, and portended a brave new era for both civic and intellectual life. We mostly responded, however, with disinterested shrugs: News flash, buddy--the world without "dominant paradigms" has already arrived; we grew up in it, and FYI, it's long since percolated out of the academy and into the lives of ordinary people, where it's just as likely to breed alienation and profound self-doubt as "solidarity" and "irony." It wasn't that we romanticized what his generation had gladly left behind; it was just that his mind was still 1950s enough to see patterns where we saw only fragments.
nbcrusader said:
While the focus is on the generation born after 1970, I'd say this is more a recognition of a trend that started post WWII. With the end of the Vietnam war, and the realization that a requirement to serve one's country had ended, the full sense of entitlement set in.
Though your take on it is quite different, I remember my father musing about something once which strikes a chord here--that the combination of paternalistic authoritarianism and dogged, relentless optimism which often characterized the '50s was in many ways really the last gasp, and hopeless attempt to reassert itself, of a creed (modernism?) which in truth had already collapsed with the War (totally crushed in Europe, mortally wounded in the United States).
---------------------------------------------------------------
I have mixed feelings on the topic of vocational schools and where they fit into education in a democracy. On the one hand, I certainly have far too many students who are both woefully unprepared and simply not cut out for advanced academic work (though it's damn hard to clearly distinguish the two sometimes). On the other hand, at least in my experience, the students who really bomb out in a spectacular way are *usually* among the brightest and theoretically most likely-to-succeed. Their problems are psychological, not academic. And many of the "naturally" less stellar students are actually very pragmatic, goal-oriented types who think of college as job preparation and little else--which I have my issues with, but at the same time it may be the best outlook to have for these students. I also wonder, given the general trend in the economy towards service jobs (which actually call for quite a lot of communications and conceptual-thinking skills, one of the things a humanities education is good for), if pushing large numbers of young people into industrial training might not be ill-advised. Even the better-paying IT jobs require a lot of the aforementioned humanities skills.
 
melon said:


At least my "GOP angles" have the full brunt of evidence behind them. Your excuse?

Perhaps it would be beneficial to share the "evidence" instead of launching into yet another pissing match about the evils of the GOP.

melon said:
I've already made this argument before, and I don't wish to repeat myself. However, if my grandparents' generation could buy a house with cash and work over the summer to pay for an entire year of private university, while my parents' generation could pay cash for a brand new car, I would say that your argument here has no teeth at all.

Melon

What is the basis for your argument? The fact remains that our grandparent's generation did not pay cash for house (though you could pay cash today for the prices they faced half a century ago). The loan industry wasn't created in the last 20 years - but has grown as our desire to acquire has outpaced our desire to save.
 
Back
Top Bottom