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Old 03-02-2008, 08:30 AM   #31
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Originally posted by INDY500
How could he be all that they claim? After all, then Bush would have to:

Be both Idiot-in-Chief AND clever enough to steal two elections, hoodwink mentally superior Democratic Senators into voting for his misbegotten war and cover-up 9/11.

Be both a Fascist AND a pawn of Big-Oil, Big-Pharma and Big-Telecom.

Be anti-science BUT develop cutting-edge technology like anti-satellite missiles and African-American-seeking hurricanes.

And somehow be a war criminal in a war that doesn't even exist.

In addition to being the world's biggest liar, the world's biggest terrorist and the world's biggest polluter. Pretty impressive really when you consider that he left the White House every summer to ride ponies on his ranch and play golf. Unfortunately, he will be considered a failed president because he never shredded the constitution to establish a Christian theocracy like he promised.
What the hell are you even talking about? How does this have to do with anything? How does this portray liberal arguments? Have you ever seen or read about politics before, really? I'm pretty sure you made all of that up.
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:57 PM   #32
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


What the hell are you even talking about? How does this have to do with anything? How does this portray liberal arguments? Have you ever seen or read about politics before, really? I'm pretty sure you made all of that up.
It is of coarse composed entirely of what has sadly passed for liberal argument these past 7 years. Pejoratives, unhinged paranoia and contradictory talking points. Now, I can't blame you for trying to distance yourself from the buffoonish statements of your brethren, but they all have been said or implied.
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:04 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


It is of coarse composed entirely of what has sadly passed for liberal argument these past 7 years. Pejoratives, unhinged paranoia and contradictory talking points. Now, I can't blame you for trying to distance yourself from the buffoonish statements of your brethren, but they all have been said or implied.
Please... some of the liberal arguments are just as childish, uninformed and simplistic as some of the conservative arguments.
The way in which US politics is divided is frightening. It is as if there was some very deep moat between the two stances.
You are arguing here as poorly as some of the liberals you are trying to blame.
Shit has sadly passed for liberal argument, and other shit has sadly passed for conservative argument.
How about engaging in some educated stuff?
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:08 PM   #34
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Originally posted by INDY500
It is of coarse composed entirely of what has sadly passed for liberal argument these past 7 years. Pejoratives, unhinged paranoia and contradictory talking points. Now, I can't blame you for trying to distance yourself from the buffoonish statements of your brethren, but they all have been said or implied.
As Vincent said, only the argument of a vocal minority.

Should the views of Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh box in every conservative?
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:39 PM   #35
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Originally posted by INDY500
Pejoratives, unhinged paranoia and contradictory talking points.
For a minute there, I thought you were talking about Fox News.
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:41 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Vincent Vega


Your presumptions form the world according to how you want it. One could say:
"Some people are too invested in "Bush is the greatest thing to ever happen to the United States" to admit when faced with some basic facts that things are not nearly as great as they, some pundits and politicians would claim.", and quite frankly, equally as wrong.

I was talking about peoples view points here in FYM which is overwhelmingly anti-Bush to the point that the majority would never admit to Bush doing something right or admit that things are not as bad as their beloved pundits and politicians might claim.

Thats precisely why I presented the above economic indicators, not really to show that Bush is great on the economy, but to show that things are not as bad as so many in here claim it to be.


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I say it again: Just by taking these figures you cannot that easily say that Clinton was the greatest, or Bush was the greatest.
That was never really the point. The point was to emphasize that the economy for Americans over the past 7 years has actually been very good from a historical standpoint, even when compared with the economy of the 1990s.




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Economic indicators show you trends and give you a hint whether economic policies have been rather good or bad. But to make actual claims you need much more than just those figures. For example, not everything that happens in the economy can directly be awarded to Clinton's or Bush's policies. The US is engaging in a world market which means that there are influences from the outside of the domestic economy.
I've already pointed out that the above economic indicators were meant more to compare the two time periods rather than specific administration policies. Both administrations play a significant role, but there are obviously many other factors, some out of control of either administration, that play a role as well. Regardless, the economic indicators show that life during the Bush years has actually been pretty good when compared to the Clinton years especially when you look at the percentage of people who lived in poverty during each respective time period. The Bush years have some of the lowest poverty rates in US history.


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The poverty rate is certainly an important indicator, but it's not telling you the whole picture: Income inequality is still rising and upward social mobility still not experienced by millions of people, or it is the step from being unemployed to working poor. Only a few make the way out of their situation, and often by joining the military.
No one here is claiming that things in the United States are perfect. But their certainly very good by US historical standards, and place the United States high up on the Human Development Index, higher I might add than your own country.
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:24 PM   #37
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Originally posted by Strongbow

No one here is claiming that things in the United States are perfect. But their certainly very good by US historical standards, and place the United States high up on the Human Development Index, higher I might add than your own country.
Hey, STING, what's it like down there on that list? Somewhere in the double digits or sumpin?
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:37 PM   #38
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:44 PM   #39
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Originally posted by anitram


Hey, STING, what's it like down there on that list? Somewhere in the double digits or sumpin?
The United States is at #12 ahead of countries like Spain, Denmark, Austria, United Kingdom, Belgium, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Italy, and yes Germany which is currently at #22 on the list do to lower scores in education and wealth than the United States.

Most of the countries that are ahead of the United States are countries that are small and spend little to nothing on the defense compared to the United States.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:00 PM   #40
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


As Vincent said, only the argument of a vocal minority.

Should the views of Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh box in every conservative?
Yes, but do you defend Bush against the "childish, uninformed and simplistic" insinuations of the "vocal minority" with the same vigor as you defend those who are the targets of Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter? We can disagree about issues and policies but meritless claims and personal attacks should be rejected out of hand by both sides. Don't ya think?
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:00 PM   #41
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Originally posted by Strongbow


Most of the countries that are ahead of the United States are countries that are small and spend little to nothing on the defense compared to the United States.
from the Top 5. The view is nice up here.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:16 PM   #42
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Originally posted by INDY500


Pejoratives, unhinged paranoia and contradictory talking points.
This describes you to a 'T', good job.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:25 PM   #43
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Originally posted by INDY500
Yes, but do you defend Bush against the "childish, uninformed and simplistic" insinuations of the "vocal minority" with the same vigor as you defend those who are the targets of Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter? We can disagree about issues and policies but meritless claims and personal attacks should be rejected out of hand by both sides. Don't ya think?
Calling George Bush childish and uninformed is incomparable to Ann Coulter calling John Edwards a faggot.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:31 PM   #44
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


This describes you to a 'T', good job.
Ah, mon bête noire est arrivé.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:44 PM   #45
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


Calling George Bush childish and uninformed is incomparable to Ann Coulter calling John Edwards a faggot.
The "childish and uninformed" insinuations would be "Bush is a Nazi" or "Bush is the worlds biggest terrorist." Actually worse than faggot in every sense except possibly political correctness.

Excuse me for remembering what the airheads and conspiracy nuts that criticize GWB from the political Left actually say.
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