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Old 08-01-2004, 04:17 PM   #16
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From Sen. Kerry's speech:

We value an America that controls its own destiny because it's finally and forever independent of Mideast oil. What does it mean for our economy and our national security when we only have three percent of the world's oil reserves, yet we rely on foreign countries for fifty-three percent of what we consume?

I want an America that relies on its own ingenuity and innovation not the Saudi royal family.

And our energy plan for a stronger America will invest in new technologies and alternative fuels and the cars of the future -- so that no young American in uniform will ever be held hostage to our dependence on oil from the Middle East.







That alone I think earns my vote. I am being forgetful, or is this the first time a leader of ours has publicly and explicitly called for this? FINALLY!

SD
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Old 08-01-2004, 04:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
From Sen. Kerry's speech:

We value an America that controls its own destiny because it's finally and forever independent of Mideast oil. What does it mean for our economy and our national security when we only have three percent of the world's oil reserves, yet we rely on foreign countries for fifty-three percent of what we consume?

I want an America that relies on its own ingenuity and innovation not the Saudi royal family.

And our energy plan for a stronger America will invest in new technologies and alternative fuels and the cars of the future -- so that no young American in uniform will ever be held hostage to our dependence on oil from the Middle East.







That alone I think earns my vote. I am being forgetful, or is this the first time a leader of ours has publicly and explicitly called for this? FINALLY!

SD

Lots of red meat there for those that opposed the Iraq war but short on specifics as well as reality. Regardless of what a Kerry administration would do, the United States and the rest of the world will be dependent on Oil for the next 2 decades at least. The oil market is a global one and even if the United States did not get one drop of Oil from Saudi Arabia, it would still be impacted by the security and the stability of the oil in Saudi Arabia because that continue's to be the planets largest single source of energy. If Saudi Oil were to suddenly be cut off through siezure or sabotage by what ever means, countries that did not use oil from Saudi Arabia would still be effected because the global price of ENERGY is determined by the available supply vs. demand. You can change where you get your oil or energy from, but that does not change the impact on the price you will pay at the pump or to heat your house as the price of these things is determined by the global market price, which in turn is greatly effected by the supply of oil from Saudi Arabia.

Only when the entire planet no longer uses oil for energy will we truely be free of the various policy's that remain a necessity today and will continue to be a necessity in the near future. Even countries in Europe that have moved far along down the road that MR. Kerry suggested are still severely impacted by what happens in the Persian Gulf Region.

By the way, what has Mr. Kerry done in the Senate for the past 20 years on such issues, a Senate record I might add that he only mentioned for 26 seconds in his speech?
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Old 08-01-2004, 04:54 PM   #18
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I agree Sherry. It's crazy, and terribly risky, for us to rely on a resource from the most volatilie region on the planet. There have been over 100 attacks of sabotage on oil facilities in Iraq, costing the country over $200 million due to broken oil lines and other facilities. It's a veritable target for the insurgents. As a result a refinery in Turkey has lost alot of business. The political situation in Riyadh is delicate, to say the least, with terrorists hiding their heads and plotting their next move. Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia, is not a place I'd choose to live in. For one thing I'd be busted for not practicing Wahhabist Islam.
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Old 08-01-2004, 05:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
the United States and the rest of the world will be dependent on Oil for the next 2 decades at least. The oil market is a global one and even if the United States did not get one drop of Oil from Saudi Arabia, it would still be impacted by the security and the stability of the oil in Saudi Arabia because that continue's to be the planets largest single source of energy. If Saudi Oil were to suddenly be cut off through siezure or sabotage by what ever means, countries that did not use oil from Saudi Arabia would still be effected because the global price of ENERGY is determined by the available supply vs. demand. You can change where you get your oil or energy from, but that does not change the impact on the price you will pay at the pump or to heat your house as the price of these things is determined by the global market price, which in turn is greatly effected by the supply of oil from Saudi Arabia.

Only when the entire planet no longer uses oil for energy will we truely be free of the various policy's that remain a necessity today and will continue to be a necessity in the near future. Even countries in Europe that have moved far along down the road that MR. Kerry suggested are still severely impacted by what happens in the Persian Gulf Region.
exactly and that's why many were affraid of a 2nd palestine in Iraq and that's why some people ask the government to spend some of the money which is used to secure the Oil down there for alternative energy projects. I hope that Kerry is smarter than Bush and realizes that money there helps in the long terme to make the US future more secure.
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Old 08-01-2004, 06:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I agree Sherry. It's crazy, and terribly risky, for us to rely on a resource from the most volatilie region on the planet. There have been over 100 attacks of sabotage on oil facilities in Iraq, costing the country over $200 million due to broken oil lines and other facilities. It's a veritable target for the insurgents. As a result a refinery in Turkey has lost alot of business. The political situation in Riyadh is delicate, to say the least, with terrorists hiding their heads and plotting their next move. Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia, is not a place I'd choose to live in. For one thing I'd be busted for not practicing Wahhabist Islam.
The entire planet both relies and is impacted by the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf, not just the United States. I don't think Franklin Roosevelt was crazy when he started the deep relationship with Saudi Arabia that has helped for the past 6 decades to lower the cost of energy for the world having innumerable positive effects on every segment of society worldwide. Much of the progress that the planet has made since World War II in all endevours has been possible because the cost of energy, a basic requirment of an industrial society, has remained low. The planet has the Persian Gulf Region largely to thank for that.
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Old 08-01-2004, 07:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
The entire planet both relies and is impacted by the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf, not just the United States. I don't think Franklin Roosevelt was crazy when he started the deep relationship with Saudi Arabia that has helped for the past 6 decades to lower the cost of energy for the world having innumerable positive effects on every segment of society worldwide. Much of the progress that the planet has made since World War II in all endevours has been possible because the cost of energy, a basic requirment of an industrial society, has remained low. The planet has the Persian Gulf Region largely to thank for that.
They are low in the United States. They are prohibitive in Europe, six dollars a gallon in the U.K. the last I heard.
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Old 08-02-2004, 07:56 AM   #22
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Oddly enough part of the reason Iraq will be a benefit in the long run is that it will be the beginning of the end for US blood money payments to Saudi Arabia. By opening up Iraq proper with a democratic government Iran may follow internally then we can really get the pressure on the Saudi Royal Family and remove the scourge of Islamofascism right from the source. I digress though, fossil fuels simply will not last forever so we must be focusing more money on developing feesible alternative sources.
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Old 08-02-2004, 09:42 AM   #23
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Sting, Kerry's speech couldn't have been more specfic or more realistic (unless one works for Mobil, I suppose). I'm a bit startled to hear a leader criticized for having the audacity to suggest that me might want to think beyond the next 20 years (to use your figure). My god--some long term vision? Creative alternatives, since what we've got isn't gonna last us and thus is not sustainable (as you rightly point out)? He's got my vote.

Verte

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Old 08-02-2004, 10:04 AM   #24
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In the 1970's people used to say the same thing. There was a minor 'gasohol' craze, using a corn base to make fuel go further. At one point, there was a dream that midwestern corn would save the world, but it did not work well, so it was abandoned.
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Old 08-02-2004, 12:38 PM   #25
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Man, if I lived in the U.K. and had to pay fg six bucks per gallon for gas, or the four bucks per gallon people are paying on the Continent, I'd want another fuel source too. These are *not* what I'd call low prices!
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Old 08-02-2004, 08:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76


They are low in the United States. They are prohibitive in Europe, six dollars a gallon in the U.K. the last I heard.
That is because there are more taxes on gasoline in Europe than the United States. Regardless, the price in Europe would go much higher if anything were to happen to the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf. The entire planet is impacted by the global price of energy which would sky rocket if the energy reserves in the Persian Gulf were siezed or sabotaged.
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:15 AM   #27
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European and Asian economies would be very badly hit if the Middle East Oil supply collapesed, they have more economic interest in maintaining stability in the region than the US.
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