Kerry lovers! What makes him so much better than Bush anyway? - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-26-2004, 08:12 PM   #1
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Big Grin Kerry lovers! What makes him so much better than Bush anyway?

As not to 'derail' the other thread and get dealt with, I am starting an alternative/equal time thread for the other side. As with the other thread, let only the supporters post here.

But first I must clarify my much maligned statement in the Bush thread. So I worded it wrong, but what I was asking is, is it only the abortion issue that makes the difference to you, because honestly I can't see any other real concrete differences, other than Kerry wants us to pay higher taxes. Kerry has not only not said he'd stop the war, he has even said that Americans are not quitters and we'll finish the job, which means he's just as committed to the conflict as Bush. Gay marriage? True Bush made himself look like a foolish clone of Pat Robertson with his 'one man one woman' speech and attempt and an amendment, but Kerry has not said he'd support it or accept it either. So WHY do you hate Bush so much and like Kerry? I want to know.

I'm sorry, but "he's not Bush" is NOT GOOD ENOUGH and will not sway my vote or hopefully anyone else's. (I will refrain from making comments insulting the intellect of those who disagree with me, though it has been done to me )
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:43 PM   #2
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I don't consider Bush a leader. He is a figure head, being led by the people behind him. These people around him - are the one's I don't support. I don't hate Bush or love Kerry. I just have to go with my instincts on this and do everything I can to get Kerry/Edwards elected. I'm currently talking some 18 to 24 year olds voters to get them registered. If they ask why I'm not voting for Bush I will tell them. Why I'm voting for Kerry - I have confidence he can bring some other countries to the table to help with Iraq and relieve the burden on our service men & women.
Not to mention the economy. These aren't the only reason of course, I have a multitude of reasons why I don't like this administration, but I'm going to watch the convention now, so I won't go into it.
(Yes I will watch the Rep. convention also- at least some of it)
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:59 PM   #3
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Well, I'm not American so I don't have much to say here and probably shouldn't really... but US foreign policy does effect us all.
On Iraq, of course the US has to stay. A belief in anything else is crazy. Whether or not in hindsite it was the right thing to do is one argument, but the fact is it was done and now that whole countries future is basically in the hands of the US. I agree, it's done, the US has made a commitment to that country and it's people and not 'finishing the job' would just be pathetic, and not just pathetic, but turn Iraq into a nightmare. Iran would probably be running the joint within 24 hours. Civil War is probably the only other option.

SO what I'm interested in is what Kerry would do should any of the other flash points flare up? Will he handle those situations better than Bush has (shouldn't be too hard)?
What are his thoughts on Israel/Palestine? Iran? Nth Korea?
Can he rebuild the relationship the US has with the vast majority of the world? (the US' standing in the world has most certainly dropped significantly since Bush has been in).
On terrorism - does he have a practical, workable plan? Not one that just involves a lot of catchy sound bites?
And what about the people around him? You can see with Bush just how important those people are. I think voting Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz etc out is more important than voting Bush out. Their ideas and vision for the world is just plain wrong and pretty scary.

That's what I'm interested in.
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Old 07-26-2004, 09:16 PM   #4
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I love nor hate either one of them...

But I think Kerry is a far better leader.

I think he'll be far better for the environment.

He realizes the bridges we've burned with our allies, and the division Bush has caused here in the states.

He'll be better for health care and our senior citizens prescriptions won't be rising and rising every year.

He'll be better for the budget, I don't believe in tax cuts when in an economy like this.

I don't think he or his appointees will blur the line of church and state. I.E. wasting time and money with ammendments against gay marriage...

He will not go into wars of choice. We are now stuck in Iraq and have to complete the job, and I think Kerry is far brighter of a man and leader to figure out what really needs to be done.

Just a few of the reasons I will be voting for Kerry rather than Bush.
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Old 07-26-2004, 09:32 PM   #5
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Yes, Kerry will be better for the environment. He will work on bringing the quagmire in Iraq to a close. No, he hasn't said he'll pull the troops out of Iraq, but I think he will work on some sort of acceptable closure, which this Administration is not. "No Child Behind" will be fully funded. It's not now. He'll improve relationships with our allies, which are terrible now. And he'll unite the country. It's sharply divided now. And these tax cuts during wartime! They are ridiculous. He'll be much more fiscally prudent. Let's face it, how conservative are deficits? Not very in my opinion.
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Old 07-26-2004, 09:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
"No Child left Behind" will be fully funded. It's not now.
This has not been as good a thing as it sounds. Ironcially, "No child left behind" has caused more to be left behind, without a teacher, or in overcrowded classrooms, or lacking some subjects. In many states, especially poorer ones or poorer regions of all states, there are teacher shortages in many grades and subjects because there are not enough teachers who meet the standards. Some of the standards they have set are red tape that is not really necessary and is a burden on everyone. I think it's better to have more teachers who have not been to all the specific classes than to have not enough to go around. No, his 'funding' will not pay for every single teacher's extra training, or give her the time away from her family to do that. I have friends and relatives who are teachers and they are frustrated by this 'program.' Like a lot of things the government does, it may sound good, but the red tape holds it down.
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Old 07-26-2004, 10:10 PM   #7
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looks like he's gonna be in my area tommorrow morning

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=2062020

It's gonna be a hard sell, being it's a big military base!
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Old 07-27-2004, 05:45 AM   #8
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No, abortion is definitely not the sole reason I'm voting for Kerry (although I personally do like the fact that while he has his personal beliefs, he doesn't see that it's his place to force them on anyone else-and that's all I'll say in regards to that, 'cause god knows I've debated this issue more than enough already).

A while back, somebody on another board had posted a voting record of Kerry's, and from what I noticed of it, I could agree with a good deal of it. That's one reason I'm voting for him. Another reason is that I feel Bush has just totally made things regarding the whole situation in Iraq and all that worse, and as a result, I'd like to have someone else give this whole ordeal a try now, see how they'd handle it.

As for the gay marriage thing-while it's true that Kerry's just supporting civil unions at this time and I'd like it if he was for treating gay marriage exactly the way a straight marriage is treated and all that, he has been smart enough to not support an amendment banning gay marriage altogether. Seriously, when Bush came out in support of that amendment, that really, really made any potential respect I could've had for him go way, way down, and I just cannot vote for a guy who would support a flat out ban on letting people be happy together. I just can't. Especially considering the fact that I knew some people who that ban would've affected. And it just really confused me how a president who claimed he'd give people in Iraq equal rights supported trying to take them away here at home. This is actually the issue that really set in stone who I'd be voting for this November, not the issue of abortion.

Those are some reasons why I'm going to be supporting Kerry. I'm not falling all over the guy-personally, if I had the power to do so, I'd make it so Clinton could run again. But that's not the case, Kerry's here and running, and out of the two, I just feel he'll be better for the job of presidency.

Angela
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Old 07-27-2004, 10:37 AM   #9
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I agree Angela, I'm for gay marriage also and I'm glad that Kerry doesn't support a ban on it. Like Kerry, I'm a practicing Catholic, and I have my beliefs, but I don't want to tell other people they should share my views. Rock'N Roll Kitty, I will do more research on "No Child Left Behind". Government regulations were driving everyone crazy when I was working in a hospital with charts, so I certainly won't claim that all government stuff is great. It can stink.
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Old 07-27-2004, 10:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers
Can he rebuild the relationship the US has with the vast majority of the world? (the US' standing in the world has most certainly dropped significantly since Bush has been in).
not being a US citizen this is the main question on my mind

I have often read on this forum that the US is hated all over the world anyway because of some kind of jealousy and spite
though that might be true in some countries, it certainly isn't true over here in Europe
fact is that the way the USA is regarded over here has changed a lot and mainly for the negative
personally I blame this on it having something to talk about in the press when we can regard the US in a less favourable way (so the press milks this image), but it also has to do with Bush really being disliked all over the place
the sad thing is that I even doubt it's because of his actions (when Clinton makes it over here on some kind of visit he is being treated like a rockstar and he didn't do much that concerns us) but it's mainly about his media personality

I guess in the end the US elections shouldn't be influenced by how their current president is being regarded outside the USA
but it is the reason that more people than usual are interested in what will happen in november this time around
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:02 AM   #11
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I don't love Kerry. He's just the lesser of two evils.
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Old 07-27-2004, 12:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by RocknRollKitty


This has not been as good a thing as it sounds. Ironcially, "No child left behind" has caused more to be left behind, without a teacher, or in overcrowded classrooms, or lacking some subjects. In many states, especially poorer ones or poorer regions of all states, there are teacher shortages in many grades and subjects because there are not enough teachers who meet the standards. Some of the standards they have set are red tape that is not really necessary and is a burden on everyone. I think it's better to have more teachers who have not been to all the specific classes than to have not enough to go around. No, his 'funding' will not pay for every single teacher's extra training, or give her the time away from her family to do that. I have friends and relatives who are teachers and they are frustrated by this 'program.' Like a lot of things the government does, it may sound good, but the red tape holds it down.
I agree with some of this and disagree with some of it. I absolutely support teacher testing and standards for the posisitons in which teachers are going to teach. This should be the highest priority of anyone who has concerns about the quality of education children in this country are receiving.

I also agree that there needs to be standards of accountability for the education people are payintg tax money for. No Child Left Behind is a catchy phrase. The problem that I have with it is that we are NOT funding anything other than the testing in many states. Yes the budget increased for education, however, the increases have gone to the TESTING COMPANIES to create and grade the testing.

As a teacher, I support the ideas, but am distressed that we are truly offering MUCH MUCH less to our students than we were four years ago. The money is not going to programs that help kids but to testing. You are not going to improve education by contionuously testing.

On this issue, I am disappointed in the president, and I believe Kwerry would be a better choice, if education were the only issue I were voting on.
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Old 07-27-2004, 12:12 PM   #13
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I really believe in most cases it's not the teacher the person who is the problem, but the curiculum (sp?) and list of things that must be taught while neglecting other things. These things are set not by teachers but by school systems or even the states. For example I have heard both teachers and older students lament that a lot of things are not taught/learned because there is no time because everything (at least in my state) is so catered to and based upon the SOL's and only the things that will be on that test. Then, basically after they are over in March, it's a downhill cruise, and by May, almost nothing new is being taught and they don't do much until school lets out in June when the obligatory 180 day schedule (which also has to do with federal funding) expires. There is SO much more that could be, and needs to be taught in that time! The teachers' hands are tied, regardless of what gov't mandated classes they have or have not attended. There are things kids want to learn, but it is not part of the set curiculum based on the current standards!

We have kids graduating not knowing important things like the basic years of historical wars, simple geography, or that you don't put an apostrophe to denote plural, only possession or a contraction. I can't say how annoyed it makes me to continue to see people type "I like these song's" or a store put up signs that say "cake mix's 2 for $1" when it should be songs and mixes! We are graduating functional illiterates with limited knowledge of basic skills and facts. More money than ever is being put into education, and less is being done with it! Money alone is not the anwer!
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Old 07-27-2004, 02:01 PM   #14
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Let's get the thread back to Kerry. You can start a new thread about education reforms if you like.
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Old 07-27-2004, 02:29 PM   #15
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I don't love Kerry either. He is closer to what I believe than Bush is. I am basically a liberal, but I try not to be too doctrinaire. I believe in being pragmatic as well. It's also important to me to realize I don't know everything. After all I'm the one who made the stupid mistake about Connecticut's electoral votes in another post.
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