Karma - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-24-2005, 04:58 AM   #31
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 03:49 PM
Wow, ok. I might have started my questions at the wrong stage, as I now want to go back a bit. So karma is essentially what our souls are doing/learning in each cycle? Am I using the right phrasing here, by the way? To backtrack a bit (sorry for my cumbersome questions, this will take years to understand lol), we reach human form, our souls present in such, and we continue on this path of learning Oneness with God, and the process is through our individual learning...Yeah? Is this exclusive of those around us? I assume the belief is everyone is on this journey, whether they know it or acknowledge it or not, so while I personally am on this, so are those around me. Do we see each other frequently, or is it always, that we see those we know? Horrible wording...Um. For my soul, will those who I know are important to me now, have always been a part of my life, in other lifetimes? And will they be significant in future lifetimes?

Ok, next lot is probably a can of old worms. Oneness or enlightenment..What is it exactly we are looking for? I see being on a path in anything as needing either 1) knowledge of the question we seek an answer to; or 2) an answer, of which you need to find the question for - or the purpose. A 'why' so to speak. I'll leave it at that again, to save you going mental from my convoluted questions lol.

But again, a big thank you, Martha and livluv. I really appreciate this. I know you are reposnding against your better judgement and taking a risk by doing so. I truly appreciate it though.
__________________

__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 05-24-2005, 06:31 AM   #32
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
So karma is essentially what our souls are doing/learning in each cycle? Am I using the right phrasing here, by the way?


Yes, you could say that. You could even say that the only reason we are here is because of our karmas. The bible says we are born 'in sin' and I believe that means 'with karma." But karma isn't just good and bad things that happen to us; it's also our attitudes and limited self-concepts.

I will backtrack a bit and say that I agree with everything that martha said about reincarnation and will add that in the teachings I follow Soul begins its journey in the mineral kingdom and continues reincarnating through the plant, reptile, and animal kingdoms and finally through countless experiences in the human form. We also believe in transmigration, meaning that once in the human form if you really fuck up bad you might end up back in the animal kingdom for a few lifetimes. But essentially Soul just keeps on moving, experiencing everything there is to experience in what are sometimes called 'the lower worlds' until it realizes its Oneness. And as foray suggested so nicely, this moving from one form to another can be viewed as energy changing forms:

Quote:
Originally posted by foray
Isn't karma about the journey of energy as it assumes various forms?



Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
To backtrack a bit (sorry for my cumbersome questions, this will take years to understand lol), we reach human form, our souls present in such, and we continue on this path of learning Oneness with God, and the process is through our individual learning...Yeah? Is this exclusive of those around us? I assume the belief is everyone is on this journey, whether they know it or acknowledge it or not, so while I personally am on this, so are those around me. Do we see each other frequently, or is it always, that we see those we know? Horrible wording...Um. For my soul, will those who I know are important to me now, have always been a part of my life, in other lifetimes? And will they be significant in future lifetimes?


Yes, I believe everyone is on this journey whether they know it or not, but that when Soul is ready to begin pursuing the Oneness part, it becomes a conscious quest.

I personally do not give much attention to where the people around me fit in in terms of past and future lives. There are some paths that focus on this a lot but for me, I just accept that everyone around me and with whom I'm close are, to use a popular expression that I don't really care for but which gets the point across, soulmates--people I've been traveling with for a long, long time. It doesn't always mean that your boyfriend was also your lover last time. He could've been your mother or even an enemy. Some teachings go so far as to say that the people you love in this lifetime are those you were mean to in previous ones and now you're experiencing the other polarity. I don't know about any of that. I just know there is familiarity and some people just feel right to me and we serve each other's unfoldment. And on the other hand, sometimes I meet people with whom there is an instant negative association or energetic and I think to myself that I still have some karma to work out with that soul. The teachings I follow say that what we call love or hate is really karmic attraction--we are naturally drawn to those with whom we have stuff to work out.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Oneness or enlightenment..What is it exactly we are looking for? I see being on a path in anything as needing either 1) knowledge of the question we seek an answer to; or 2) an answer, of which you need to find the question for - or the purpose. A 'why' so to speak.
"Why?" of course is the big question. I've often heard it said that if you want to know why God sent Soul on this little journey you can ask when you get there, lol, a response that doesn't satisfy the mind very well. But essentially at one time we were all One with God and Soul forgot who it was so it was sent on this journey to remember its innate divinity. And it's an unfathomable journey, really, when you think that even as we speak countless souls are being born into the mineral kingdom and beginning their journey and at the same time countless are returning to the Oneness state. I see it as a giant river flowing out of and back into God constantly. And it's rather like peeling back layers because it's not that God is something outside of us, but it is something that already exists within us.
__________________

__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 05-24-2005, 08:40 AM   #33
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: full of sound and fury
Posts: 3,386
Local Time: 05:49 PM
Awesome

joyfulgirl, this might be a simplistic question, but what is the point of having us forget each life as we begin living it, if the objective is to learn?

foray
__________________
foray is offline  
Old 05-24-2005, 08:55 AM   #34
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by foray
Awesome

joyfulgirl, this might be a simplistic question, but what is the point of having us forget each life as we begin living it, if the objective is to learn?

foray
Good question. I don't really have an absolute answer to that but I would guess that the veil is dropped between lifetimes because it is all just too much for our puny minds to handle and the focus should be the present lifetime. If we could actually see everything we've been through and the magnitude of it, and the length of time we've been doing this, we might spontaneously combust or something, lol. Sometimes I get glimpses of past lifetimes in dreams but honestly I don't give it much thought or attention unless it is relevant to something I'm going through now and I'm really ready to get to the bottom of it. But for the most part the present life is quite a handful as it is. At some point, I'm taught, one does attain a very good overview of the past and I think that is a matter of readiness.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 05-24-2005, 09:02 AM   #35
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: full of sound and fury
Posts: 3,386
Local Time: 05:49 PM
Or maybe the present is a handful because we have to relearn things. In any case, I have been giving your idea of collective karma much thought. I believe Tori Amos's music deal a lot with the karma of the soil. I will mulch on this new info for a while, too.

foray
__________________
foray is offline  
Old 06-03-2005, 04:21 AM   #36
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 03:49 PM
I hope resurrecting this doesn't prove a bad decision, but I've been chewing it over and have more questions. Some specific ones I hope do not incite fighting.

Firstly with the soul, is it there from conception? And does it take a while to get from one life to the next? Also, is the soul who we are, or not? I guess what I mean is does the soul have gender and characteristics which make us, or can we be a female in one life and male in the next, sort of thing.

This one might get sensitive, so please feel free to ignore it or any of them. If the soul is learning and each life is a journey, what is the deal with babies, infants, and young children and those who do not survive? I think this question and the ones above might be related in some way. How is the soul linked to the life it is in? That might answer my question about infants and unborn babies. But really, if this is going to upset anyone, please ignore it. I can search elsewhere.

And then God. Is there a general view on who or what God is?

-------------
Sorry for not writing back to you joyful, I had meant to but got distracted and then kept forgetting my questions etc lol. Thanks again though, guys.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 06-03-2005, 10:25 AM   #37
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 08:49 PM
I'll tackle this one after school gets out today.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 07:08 PM   #38
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 08:49 PM
Ok, so I waited a day. My baby came back home.

As usual, my answers are as I understand things.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Firstly with the soul, is it there from conception? And does it take a while to get from one life to the next?
Yes. It depends. If you still have karma to work off, and you die before your time, you have to work off the karma through others who are still living. Suicides are an example of this situation. (Don't ask me the particulars of how they do this. My goal is to never have to find out.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Also, is the soul who we are, or not? I guess what I mean is does the soul have gender and characteristics which make us, or can we be a female in one life and male in the next, sort of thing.
First question: in general, yes. Second question: souls do change genders throughout the cycle of rebirth.


Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
If the soul is learning and each life is a journey, what is the deal with babies, infants, and young children and those who do not survive? I think this question and the ones above might be related in some way. How is the soul linked to the life it is in? That might answer my question about infants and unborn babies.
In general, the babies who don't survive or die very young are fulfilling whatever karma they have for this lifetime. I don't think I completely understand the second question here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
And then God. Is there a general view on who or what God is?
As far as I'm concerned, God is a very real and dynamic part of my life. In my religion, God does not control karma; it is a cycle that generally occurs without His interference. Although, it can get complicated with that when you start to consider Gifts from God and other things.


I think I'd better just come down there so we can talk about this over lunch.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 08:43 PM   #39
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 03:49 PM
It'll be my shout then, if you ever do head down our way!

I'll mull some more over the question I couldn't ask properly, and see if I can make it a bit clearer. Also do you know of any online references you'd recommend?
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 09:10 PM   #40
War Child
 
2Hearts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 634
Local Time: 04:49 AM
Martha & Joyfulgirl,

Do you view God as the Creator? If not, what are your beliefs on the origin of the universe?
__________________
2Hearts is offline  
Old 06-05-2005, 10:20 AM   #41
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2Hearts
Martha

Do you view God as the Creator?
Yes.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 06-05-2005, 10:22 AM   #42
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I'll mull some more over the question I couldn't ask properly, and see if I can make it a bit clearer. Also do you know of any online references you'd recommend?
I don't think it's that you couldn't ask it properly; I think it's that the question may be too big.

Online? No. I got all this from books and university. What an old-fashioned girl.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 06-05-2005, 10:33 AM   #43
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,297
Local Time: 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
[B]Wow, ok. I might have started my questions at the wrong stage, as I now want to go back a bit. So karma is essentially what our souls are doing/learning in each cycle? Am I using the right phrasing here, by the way?
Just jumping in for a second - I would rather say that karma is the result of what we are doing/learning, and not the actual actions themselves, if that makes sense. Technically, what you are doing (as according to your path in life) is your dharma.



Quote:
Ok, next lot is probably a can of old worms. Oneness or enlightenment..What is it exactly we are looking for?
This is where you start getting into the differences established between Buddhism and Hinduism. For the record, the notions of karma, dharma, yoga and samsara are all Hindu teachings, as Buddhism is a much younger religion which spanned from Hinduism, but I think pop culture has sort of permanently tied karma with Buddhism while ignoring its origins.

You can look at the case of meditation specifically when wondering about what it is we are looking for. The Buddha had a different notion of what meditation should achieve - he taught that it should connect you more intimately with the universe, rather than attempting to achieve complete separation into an enlightened realm. At the same time, Hindu critics accused him of preaching nihilism, but basically the point is that if you are discussing karma and the Eastern cyclic religions (Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism), they don't all necessarily believe in identical things, although karma plays a large role in all of them.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 06-06-2005, 10:02 AM   #44
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 09:49 PM
I was away for a few days and got to pay back an unexpected and rather unpleasant karmic debt while I was at it.

And as martha also said, I too would like to reiterate that these responses are as I understand them and not necessarily how all religions and spiritual paths that deal with karma would address these questions.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Firstly with the soul, is it there from conception? And does it take a while to get from one life to the next?
The short answer is yes but the long answer would involve a lengthy explanation of the various bodies within the physical body (astral, causal, mental, soul) so that it’s not a simple yes. But for now I will say yes.

How soon a soul reincarnates depends on its karma. There are various regions a soul can go after it departs a physical body, such as the region like the Christian heaven. If a soul has earned good karma they can stay in one of these 'heavenly' regions for eons, but if they did not become self-realized while living in a physical body--which is the state of enlightenment where one has become free of karmic debts--they eventually must reincarnate and continue on the cycle of birth and rebirth.

Similarly, there are also various regions the soul can go that are not so good, but more like reform schools than burning fires of hell. After a period in these regions the soul must also reincarnate.

And some souls reincarnate immediately.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Also, is the soul who we are, or not?
Yes, we are soul. But we think we are the mind. Even if we believe we are soul, until self-realization we experience life through the lens of the mind, with flashes here and there from the soul. Living life through soul's viewpoint, which earmarks the spiritual attainment of self-realization, means that reliance on knowledge and information, which are of the mind and therefore distorted and dualistic in nature (and relative truth at best), is replaced with direct perception of absolute truth.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem

I guess what I mean is does the soul have gender and characteristics which make us, or can we be a female in one life and male in the next, sort of thing.
Soul itself is formless and genderless but takes on both genders throughout its incarnations into the human form. At self-realization the masculine and feminine attributes are balanced.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem

what is the deal with babies, infants, and young children and those who do not survive?
Karma. According to the law of karma, absolutely everything before self-realization is karma. Where you are born, whether you are male or female, rich or poor, who you marry, where you live, who your friends are, your tendencies, attitudes, body type, race, absolutely everything is karma, even the choices we make under the illusion of free will. The ‘system’ is divine, tight and flawless. In some cases a soul comes into a body, into a family, for a short time to help propel those souls in the family forward rapidly. Difficult situations actually serve the soul's spiritual unfoldment. But regardless, an infant or child that dies young is the karma of everyone involved.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
And then God. Is there a general view on who or what God is?
I believe God is the creator, the creative power of the universe. I believe it is formless and unfathomable to the human mind, and that soul is like a drop from the ocean of God, and its goal is to merge back into that ocean.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 06-06-2005, 06:36 PM   #45
The Fly
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 236
Local Time: 04:49 AM
Wow, this seems like n interesting topic. I always had this strong fascination with Buddhism and Eastern religions. I still have one question (sorry if this question is addressed already, I basically just skimmed through the topic):

It has to do with reincarnation. If reincarnation is true, then how come the general world population is growing and growing?
__________________

__________________
Halifax is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com