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Old 07-05-2005, 08:43 PM   #16
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I think that to the audience that Rall appeals too the most Rove is the mastermind of that evil.
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:44 PM   #17
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If marines were captured and the worse they got was a burning flag as torture they would be very, very lucky.



Is this the ipod you get your information from?
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:54 PM   #18
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No, I thought that the documented evidence ranging from pictures of the dungeon up to the video's of hostages being decapitated are enough to demonstrate that the jihadists are more than capable of torture and murder. If you were captured and the worst you got was seeing your flag burned in front of you then you would be very, very lucky.
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Old 07-05-2005, 09:20 PM   #19
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you keep implying that the worst that happened was koran abuse



what is the point of

discussing anything with you?
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Old 07-05-2005, 09:39 PM   #20
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Worse happened, but the point being made was about Koran abuse specifically.

Beating and torture is worse than anything done to paper, koran "abuse" is just a ridiculous diversion from actual torture. The highlighting of somebody stepping on a Koran or getting droplets of urine on it really pale in comparison to torture.
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Old 07-06-2005, 05:06 AM   #21
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what does this have to do w/ the Koran and burning the flag?

I can't stand Karl Rove, but he certainly hasn't murdered thousands of people. I understand what this guy is saying about treason but it's rather extreme to talk about Osama in the same breath.

Anyway, Cooper and Miller might be ordered to jail today, they'll do more time than Karl Rove ever will.

By Pete Yost, Associated Press | July 6, 2005

WASHINGTON -- A federal prosecutor yesterday demanded that Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper testify before a grand jury investigating the leak of a CIA officer's identity, even though Time Inc. has surrendered e-mails and other documents in the probe.

Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald also opposed the request of Cooper and New York Times reporter Judith Miller to be granted home detention -- instead of jail -- for refusing to reveal their sources.

Allowing the reporters home confinement would make it easier for them to continue to defy a court order to testify, he said. Special treatment for journalists may ''negate the coercive effect contemplated by federal law," Fitzgerald wrote in filings with the court.

''Journalists are not entitled to promise complete confidentiality -- no one in America is," Fitzgerald wrote.

Fitzgerald is investigating who in the administration leaked the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame, a possible federal crime. Plame's identity was leaked days after her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, publicly disparaged the president's case for invading Iraq.

Plame's name was first published in a 2003 column by Robert Novak, who cited two unidentified senior Bush administration officials as his sources. Novak has refused to say whether he has testified or been subpoenaed.

Cooper wrote a subsequent story naming Plame, and Miller gathered material but never wrote an article.

Time turned over Cooper's notes and other documents last week, four days after the Supreme Court refused to consider the case. Cooper's attorneys argued that producing the documents made it unnecessary for him to testify.

Miller and Cooper could be ordered to jail as early as today, when US District Judge Thomas Hogan will hear arguments from Fitzgerald and lawyers for the reporters about whether they should testify.

Hogan has found the reporters in contempt of court for refusing to divulge their sources and he indicated last week that he is prepared to send them to jail if they do not cooperate.

In his court filings, Fitzgerald said it is essential for courts to enforce their contempt orders so that grand juries can get the evidence they need.

Fitzgerald said it would be up to the judge to decide whether to send Cooper to the District of Columbia jail or some other facility. On Friday, Cooper's lawyers argued against sending him to the D.C. jail, saying it is a ''dangerous maximum security lockup already overcrowded with a mix of convicted offenders and other detainees awaiting criminal trials."

Miller's lawyers argue that there are no circumstances under which she will talk, but Fitzgerald disagreed.

''There is tension between Miller's claim that confinement will never coerce her to testify and her alternative position that this court should consider less restrictive forms of confinement," the prosecutor wrote.

The case is among the most serious legal clashes between the media and the government since the Supreme Court in 1971 refused to stop the Times and The Washington Post from publishing a classified history of the Vietnam War known as the Pentagon Papers.

Thirty-one states and the District of Columbia have shield laws protecting reporters from having to identify their confidential sources. Legislation to establish such protection under federal law has been introduced in Congress.
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Old 07-06-2005, 08:23 AM   #22
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What does this have to do with anything?
It appears to be a commentary on the numerous standards used in evaluating situations. The difference between hero and villain can change without notice.
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Old 07-06-2005, 08:36 AM   #23
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The difference between hero and villain can change without notice.
And so can the "I'm such a victim" mentality.

And that's exactly what Cardosino sounded like...
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:53 AM   #24
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Karl Rove made a call to Novak but not the call.

Please don't let the facts interfer again. Conclusions were made long ago. I'm glad FYM isn't part of judiciary system.
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:54 AM   #25
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I'm glad FYM isn't part of judiciary system.
I second that...
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:58 AM   #26
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I second that...

but FYM is way more fun than the judicial system ...


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Old 07-06-2005, 10:10 AM   #27
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but FYM is way more fun than the judicial system ...


And I'll second that!
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:29 AM   #28
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where's the fun, I guess I'm left out of it

I haven't arrived at any conclusions about Karl Rove's involvement, but his personality and aggressive tactics would make me believe it's a possibility.

I don't think he's a man of high moral integrity, that's just the impression I get. That doesn't mean I automatically think he's guilty. But if he is, I don't think it will ever be revealed.
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Old 07-06-2005, 01:02 PM   #29
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WASHINGTON - A federal judge on Wednesday jailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller for refusing to divulge her source to a grand jury investigating the Bush administration's leak of an undercover CIA operative's name. "There is still a realistic possibility that confinement might cause her to testify," U.S. District Judge Thomas Hogan said. Miller stood up, hugged her lawyer and was escorted from the courtroom.
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Old 07-06-2005, 01:27 PM   #30
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Originally posted by cardosino
And we all know one shouldn't desecrate things millions hold sacred. Unless it has a stars and stripes.....
Interesting. So now a national flag has 'sacred' status.
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