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Old 02-20-2003, 12:18 AM   #31
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verte76:

They were at the one in San Francisco, which, if I recall, had several Marxist groups that have militant agendas. Is that "peaceful" or anti-war?

~U2Alabama

boom.
Bama says at right again

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Old 02-20-2003, 12:19 AM   #32
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I am just irked because I was really starting to believe that he was close to complying. I apologize to all who protested. I was holding out hope that maybe just maybe things were changing.

Sorry.

That's OK. There's some really heavy duty emotion going down over this, on both sides. It's a little scary, to be honest. Damn, if only Desert Storm had taken Saddam out. None of this would be going on if it had. Oh, well...........
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Old 02-20-2003, 12:23 AM   #33
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I wished the people would protest Saddam's atrocities of killing 1.5 million of his own people
instead of enabling him....

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Old 02-20-2003, 12:27 AM   #34
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2. If the Ku Klux Klan or Neo-Nazi Skinheads or some other group of crap-heads were to come to your town to hold a demonstration, wouldn't you hope that African American groups, the local Jewish Federation, and simply good people would go and counter their hateful demonstration?
~U2Alabama
Well that's a completely irrelevant observation and the comparison is way out of line.

The people demonstrating weren't crapheads or racists or skinheads, they were people concerned about what they see as a pattern of behaviour by the leader of a major nuclear superpower being one that will lead the planet down a path of war and unrest.

If those two morons (and they ARE morons) had shown up with signs indicating their support for Bush or dislike for Saddam, fine, that is respectfully representing your opinion.

But, and as other posters have pointed out, they weren't there to do that, they were there to mock people and label them as communists. They were there to try (they did not succeed) to make people feel that by marching for peace they were actually supporting evil dictatorships, past and present.

Try reading the signs again. There is nothing respectful or peaceful about how they are stating their opinions.

Not to mention that most of what they stated were complete logical fallacies anyways.

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Old 02-20-2003, 12:39 AM   #35
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Well that's a completely irrelevant observation and the comparison is way out of line.



If those two morons (and they ARE morons) had shown up with signs indicating their support for Bush or dislike for Saddam, fine, that is respectfully representing your opinion.

But, and as other posters have pointed out, they weren't there to do that, they were there to mock people and label them as communists.

Gabriel-
I think you are wrong.
First of all they werent "morons", as you labeled them. I listened to them, they were calm, collected and well mannered.
They were also extremely knowlegable.

What they did was turned the protester's logic around on them and sadly the protesters were exposed..

The rally was
sponsored in part
by
Communist organizations..
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Old 02-20-2003, 12:39 AM   #36
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Well, gabrielvox, I guess we will disagree about what is acceptable, relevant, etc. It was admitted in here awhile back by some of the anti-war people that there are some questionable groups that organize in and/or participate in these rallies, specifically the San Francisco rally. If, for example, there were any Islamic extremist groups at the rallies, then a Jewish person could reasonably say that racists and crapheads were present amongst the demonstrators. Obviously, the majority of the demonstrators were pacifists, church councils, mainstream Muslim groups, moderate Socialist organizations and concerned individuals. But knowing some of the shady causes that some of the fringe groups have supported perhaps inspired Kafir and Alan (the "morons") to go out there and male a counter-point.

Their signs were flippant and sarcastically shocking, but aren't many of the signs carried by the anti-war demonstrators as well?

~U2Alabama
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Old 02-20-2003, 12:41 AM   #37
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Diamond,

Its a free country. Im free to call them morons cause they are (and they dont post here so I cant be accused of offending LOL)

You are free to align yourself with them if you'd like..

But I had hoped better of you...

I mean, unabashed love of GW is one thing...

:LMAO:

:LOL:

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Old 02-20-2003, 12:45 AM   #38
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esp for-Gabriel and HipHop


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Old 02-20-2003, 12:51 AM   #39
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Originally posted by U2Bama
If, for example, there were any Islamic extremist groups at the rallies, then a Jewish person could reasonably say that racists and crapheads were present amongst the demonstrators. Obviously, the majority of the demonstrators were pacifists, church councils, mainstream Muslim groups, moderate Socialist organizations and concerned individuals. But knowing some of the shady causes that some of the fringe groups have supported perhaps inspired Kafir and Alan (the "morons") to go out there and male a counter-point.

Their signs were flippant and sarcastically shocking, but aren't many of the signs carried by the anti-war demonstrators as well?

~U2Alabama
1. You are stretching on the "If, for example". There has been no evidence presented that these rallies were organized or even attended by "Islamic extremist groups".

2. In any organized crowd of people, there will be the odd nutbar or extremist who operates on the fringes of popularly accepted opinion. Im sure that even at U2 concerts this would be possible. Does that mean anti-U2-fan-protesters should show up with placards that state that people who support concerts where such people *may* be present are themselves supporting these nuts? Resoundingly, the answer is no.

3. The shocking and flippant placards that anti-war protesters carry are not mockingly aimed at other protesters, they are aimed at world leaders who to them are clearly not listening to the growing voice of dissent from those who voted them in in the first place. Thus they are fittingly shocking, to gain attention from said leaders and let them see how public perception is evolving about them.
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Old 02-20-2003, 12:54 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

esp for-Gabriel and HipHop


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Old 02-20-2003, 12:55 AM   #41
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esp for-Gabriel and HipHop


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Not sure even who this is or what youre implying but you're slippin dude...

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Old 02-20-2003, 12:58 AM   #42
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Oh now I get it...he was at the rally...

Well in this photo we see a respectful display of one's opinions that doesn't necessitate attacking other protesters or trying to make them feel like shit.



Kafir and Alan still suck.

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Old 02-20-2003, 01:01 AM   #43
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Where was public opinion 10, 20 years ago!?

A full-out war is not necessary to remove Saddam, but it does serve its other purposes. Being anti-war does not mean being pro-saddam. In any case, I support the removal of saddam 100%.

It's sad to me how the U.S. (and others) tend to take the moral high ground only when it suits them. History proves this again and again. Iraq is an easy, and important, target though. I don't think we dare attack poor little mad North Korea, or worse yet China. The U.S. hypocrisy on the whole human-rights/communism/threat-to-the-world issue is massive. The U.S. primarily wages war to advance its own agenda. If it's the removal of communism, then so be it, if not then we don't really care either. We should have taken Saddam out in the 80's once we learned he liked to gas his own people, but he was too useful to the U.S. at the time, and instead we had Rummy happily shaking hands with the fucker. Using our current humanitarian/threat-to-the-world logic, it would be naive to think we're going to stop with Iraq. Syria and Iran, for example, know they're in the crosshairs. And if the geo-political map of the area is reshaped because of that, well then I'm sure the Zionists over in Israel won't mind a bit.

We had a chance in the first Gulf War to remove Saddam, but "political pressure" and "public opinion" kept daddy Bush from doing so. Why on earth Bush bowed to public pressure is beyond me. Worse yet, why on earth this opinion was counter to the removal of Saddam and didn't seem to mind his gross human-rights violations is again mind-boggling. Shortsightedness? Self-interest? Or just plain apathy? Yet, even that war was steeped with corruption, so maybe it was designed that way.

Instead of a limited tactical extraction of Saddam we are going to see an "over-the-top" shock-and-awe strategy from the pentagon. It's designed to intimidate and destroy absolutely. Most Iraqi soldiers want their freedom just as the civilians. But they're forced to fight or be executed. Yet, they're going to die. Only Saddam's Royal Guard is fiercely loyal to him. We have the weaponry and technology to disable Saddam's military regime with very little casualty. The pentagon has publically (but limitedly) stated we will see the use of new electromagnetic weaponry in Iraq. If the royal guard has to go, then all the better, but why all this purposefully-driven over the top nonsense is beyond me. It just means excessive spending $$$ (good for the military-industrial machine and the Federal Reserve), excessive casualties, excessive anti-US sentiment, and other complications. If we were really doing this as a humanitarian and preemptive mission, then we should be as humanitarian in our war plans as possible. But we're not, we have a MASSIVE buildup and we're going to use the shock-and-awe strategy and flex our big muscles and make sure every one else gets the message. U.S. imperalism will not be deterred!

I think most everybody is for the removal of Saddam, and sense it can be done without a massive full-scale shock-and-awe war and the hidden agendas associated with it. I think that is what is reflected in the anti-war movement more than anything.
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Old 02-20-2003, 01:03 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
I wished the people would protest Saddam's atrocities of killing 1.5 million of his own people
instead of enabling him....

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false logic, and most people won't fall for that trap.
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Old 02-20-2003, 01:10 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by elfyx


false logic, and most people won't fall for that trap.
Not to mention the fact that the number he quoted (1.5 m), is in reference to some other poster's far-fetched contrived calculation of how many deaths in total, not necessarily Iraqi, Saddam is apparently responsible for.

Cmon Diamond!

But I have to agree with you elfyx, if I understand you correctly. If the US really wanted Saddam out, they could figure out a way of taking him out without launching a full scale invasion of a country that will kill hundreds of thousands, and then with him gone his military would likely collapse.

But it ain't all about Saddam tho, is it?

Like Janet sang, it's about Control.
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Quote:
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If you keep going, you have only your self to blame

 


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