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Old 08-24-2007, 11:46 PM   #106
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Originally posted by yolland

Do you have data to support this?
Well there isn't much data that separates child murder from adult murder, especially since the term child is defined differently from state to state. What I was going by is there is no evidence that child murderers are treated any differently than any other murderer, especially in the terms that this poster was suggesting. And that the majority of murderers in general do not get just "a certain amount of years".
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:49 PM   #107
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Originally posted by JCOSTER

Not yet anyway.
Sigh.

I wonder if the net result of those sex offender notifications is just a ratcheting up of fear in some neighbourhoods and a false sense of security in others rather than a reasonable sense of caution everywhere. I mean I'm older than you are and I remember as a child being aware that there are people children shouldn't be around, and that those people aren't always the ones you think they are either. That wasn't because of some notifications sent around, but just logic.

Sometimes I think so many people are so worried about the convicted child molester down the street that they don't pay a bit of attention to Uncle Joe who's been molesting generations of family members. My guess (and it is just my guess) is that if you know people from work, school (your kids or your own), church, various clubs, etc., you already know at least one child molester. I would also bet that person will never be arrested or convicted.
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:50 PM   #108
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Depressed. We're in such lovely company.
What is even more telling is that the US has a higher murder rate than all those western countries which abolished the death penalty. Great deterrent!
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:58 AM   #109
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Originally posted by anitram


What is even more telling is that the US has a higher murder rate than all those western countries which abolished the death penalty. Great deterrent!
How would abolishing the death penalty cause a reduction in murder rates, aren't they two seperate issues.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:06 AM   #110
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Twisting issues...
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:23 AM   #111
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I oppose the death penalty, how is it twisting the issues, the highest form of punishment doesn't seem to stop murders from happening even in the absence of the death penalty; does punishment ever really stop crime?
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Old 08-25-2007, 04:15 AM   #112
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Nothing is ever going to stop murders from occuring - as a race of people we are sadly quite violent and agressive.

I just don't understand the people that say ' i want to do just what he did to my child etc' So you want to rape him, then strangle him, then put him in a abag and bury him? Could you do that? Because if you can you are no better then him revenge/mental illness/anger whatever, they are no better and one is not better then the other in causing a death of someone.

Perhaps the prisons wouldn't be so overcrowded if they didn't lock up every pot smoker and that person who robbed a 7 11 for 12 dollars because they're starving/homeless whatever.

Lets leave jail for the actual criminals, and set up more rehabilitation and help centers for the desperate people who commit crimes because they feel there is no other way.
But then.... they're all the same anyway isn't that right?

Also what does it mean ' so they can go to some jail and get a degree and 3 meals a day and live life' ? Wow they get to get a degree, not much use when they spend 23 hours a day locked in a tiny cell. Oh and 3 meals a day? Wow lets knock the cordon bleu and white wine out of their hands and give them a piece of mouldy bread and some bracken water. Jail isn't some country club - and i seriously believe being locked up in a tiny cell for 50 years is a much better deterrant then the death penalty.
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Old 08-25-2007, 05:25 AM   #113
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


I want someone who's pro-DP to counter-argue this. I really do.
I know that you're not implying that Couey was innocent so what are you saying? This is a clear case of guilt that Couey himself confessed to many times and that was PROVEN in a court of law.

Where is the assumption of innocence in this case?
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:48 AM   #114
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
How would abolishing the death penalty cause a reduction in murder rates, aren't they two seperate issues.
Well it wouldn't and it doesn't in practice. But the argument is constantly raised that the death penalty serves several purposes: punishment, deterrence, exemplary action and so on. There have been countless criminal law papers written on exactly this matter, and yet we all know deterrence doesn't work when it comes to murder.

As for whether punishment stops a crime - I would say it probably does with some crimes, at very low rates.
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Old 08-25-2007, 11:55 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


Sometimes I think so many people are so worried about the convicted child molester down the street that they don't pay a bit of attention to Uncle Joe who's been molesting generations of family members. My guess (and it is just my guess) is that if you know people from work, school (your kids or your own), church, various clubs, etc., you already know at least one child molester. I would also bet that person will never be arrested or convicted.


you are absolutely correct.

most children who are molested are pre-teen to young-teenaged girls, and its at the hands of an older male relative. but that's not as sensational as the potential for a Jeffrey Dahmer. so let's ignore the real problem and make ourselves hysterical about these one-in-a-million (which is not to say it doesn't happen, it does) situations.

i also tripped up in my "rob a 7-11 analogy." what i meant by "worse" was that, if someone serves 5 years for robbing a 7-11, and someone serves 15 years for rape, and both have done their time, served their debt to soceity, can we really say that one is more or less deserving of a fresh start than the other?

people do crimes, they do time, and then what?
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:37 PM   #116
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar




You can't send people to life because they might become a killer!!!

If that was the case we'd all be in jail.
I never said that. What I was getting at is that sooner or later a child molester would end up killing one of its victims.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:44 PM   #117
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Originally posted by JCOSTER


I never said that. What I was getting at is that sooner or later a child molester would end up killing one of its victims.
Yes SOME do, and some buglars end up killing their victims, and some wives end up killing their husbands or children.

But you seem to be under the impression they all do and lump them into one category.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:45 PM   #118
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Just so its clear, this is the exact notification we recieve through the school district if your school has signed up for it.


Please be advised that Parents for Megan's Law has been informed of the presence of the following sex offenders. Please go to our website, http://www.parentsformeganslaw.org and search for the following sex offenders.

(1) Low Risk Offenders (Level 1) (2) Moderate Risk Offenders (Level 2) and (2) High Risk Offenders (Level 3) in Suffolk County, and (2) Low Risk Offenders (Level 1) (0) Moderate Risk Offenders (Level 2) and (0) High Risk Offenders (Level 3) in Nassau County.

Suffolk County:
Low Risk Offenders:
Lawrence Nelke DOB:03/14/1949 Zip Code:11722 Central Islip

Suffolk County:
Moderate Risk Offenders:
James Squire DOB:07/03/1964 Zip Code:11727 Coram
Teofilo Espinosa DOB:04/14/1933 Zip Code:11722 Central Islip

Suffolk County:
High Risk Offenders:
James Mallard DOB:08/01/1966 Zip Code:11727 Coram
David Arnold DOB:01/10/1975 Zip Code:11727 Coram

Nassau County:
Low Risk Offenders:
Michael Caputo DOB:06/17/1968 Zip Code:11558 Island Park Joanne Depuy DOB:05/26/1958 Zip Code: 11793 Wantagh

Nassau County:
Moderate Risk Offenders:

Nassau County
High Risk Offenders:

Be advised that 90 percent of childhood sexual abuse occurs with someone a child has an established and trusting relationship with, often a person in a position of authority. Be aware of those offenders who have been caught and convicted, and take necessary precautions, but do not make the mistake of thinking that because you know the whereabouts of registered offenders that your children are immune to sexual victimization.

Call our hotline at 631-689-2672 to schedule workshops for parents and children to learn how to prevent sexual victimization. We offer fun and informative educational programs for children from preschool through high school and adult education.

Parents For Megan's Law (PFML) makes no guarantee as to the timeliness or accuracy of the information it provides herein. PFML is simply reporting the information as it receives from law enforcement.

Please be advised that not all local Long Island municipal police departments participate in the PFML email alert program. The following law enforcement agencies provide this information to PFML:

Suffolk County Police Department
Nassau County Police Department
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:05 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
I know that you're not implying that Couey was innocent so what are you saying? This is a clear case of guilt that Couey himself confessed to many times and that was PROVEN in a court of law.

Where is the assumption of innocence in this case?
Are you serious? You can't see what I'm saying? Read my post again. It has nothing to do with THIS case. I'm talking about the death penalty in general. Think about this:

1) In a court of law, guilt is proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Not for certainty.

2) There have been cases in the past in which people were found guilty for crimes they didn't commit.

3) If a person is in prison for life without parole, they cannot commit the crimes.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:06 PM   #120
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Be advised that 90 percent of childhood sexual abuse occurs with someone a child has an established and trusting relationship with, often a person in a position of authority.
Dads, uncles, grandpas, boyfriends of other adults, teachers, policemen, priests, firemen, crossing guards, babysitters, pretty much anyone with a penis that the child knows.
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