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Old 08-26-2007, 01:40 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I'll tell you what...

The day you stop your self righteous judgements, insults, and start practicing what you preach I will gladly do so...

Just show me that day.
Do you know him in person to say that?

As far as your link goes. I won't quote the bible anymore here. My opinion is still the same for the death penalty, you take a life out of mere destruction then your life should be taken as well.
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:42 AM   #302
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I don't understand how you think you can measure the level of certainty over someone's guilt.
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:44 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER


Do you know him in person to say that?
I haven't made a judegment on him personally, just his posts.


Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER

As far as your link goes. I won't quote the bible anymore here. My opinion is still the same for the death penalty, you take a life out of mere destruction then your life should be taken as well.
Well my point is you can't stand by a verse alone unless you know the context...
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:52 AM   #304
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Okay you and a few others asked for a biblical back up and I gave it to you from the bible.

Everyone has their own opinions on the matter, some will change and some won't as time goes on.

nighty night.
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:59 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


True, because there would be no murder (thou shall not kill) and no death penalty (you guessed it, thou shall not kill). There is no qualifier to that commandment. It doesn't say "thou shall not kill, unless the person did something truly awful," so at least through the lens of the 10 Commandments, the death penalty is wrong.

But all that is besides the point, because that's not the world we live in. The 10 commandments are not law.
This is how I understand the 6th Commandment:

The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" is really not as general as the King James version would indicate. The commandment actually refers to premeditated, unjustified killing - murder. Although God ordered the extermination of entire cities, He did so in righteous judgment on a people whose corruption had led to extreme wickedness, including child sacrifice. Did God destroy the righteous along with the wicked? In an exchange with Abraham, God indicated that He would spare the wicked to save the righteous. He demonstrated this principle by saving righteous people from Sodom and Jericho prior to their destruction. The charge that God indiscriminately murdered people does not hold to to critical evaluation of the biblical texts.


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Old 08-26-2007, 02:07 AM   #306
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Are infidels justified targets of righteous judgement?
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Old 08-26-2007, 05:32 AM   #307
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You know what the feeling I seem to get around here is - if you're not christian and you don't believe in God then you're some unmoralistic person that doesn't give two flying fucks about your fellow man, whethe r they're dead alive, a murderer, rapist etc.

I don't give a shit about what it says in the bible - surely we've seen over the last how ever number or years people justifying the worst crap in the world by the laws written in some religious book.

It also strikes me that suddenly im barbaric because I don't believe that anyone has the right to take another life. That I don't trust our legal system to be fair and honest and impartial in all senses. That i believe that maybe, in the future at some moment some people who've commited such horrible crimes may realise and mourn for what they've done. Not everyone is some hardcore sociopath. And because of these beliefs, and also because i don't believe in God - I"M the demon in the picture and the people saying god awful things like 'i'd like to kill him myself' and getting all 'its a lucky co-incidence' and coming in here with thei righteous bullshit, getting all arrogant from their religious pedestal so high - are some fucking saints because they read a book and believe every single word in there (but also twist it all to match anything they say)

wow - so forgiving and open - such "'moralistic" people.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:08 AM   #308
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER


So then lets not have and just do what the other countries do instead because thats so much more humane.
Either death penalty or horror in jail?
So, either Europe doesn't exist, or do you mean we are doing that shit?
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:19 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER


Some countries don't have the death penalty but have much more of a brutal way of dealing with those who break the law such as, horrific jails where you wish you would be dead, torture, amputation, mutilation, stoning, drowning...etc. If I had to go through any of those I would rather be dead.

The DP is humane compared to the jail sentences and punishments from other countries.
But see that's what I'm getting at, other countries that do such things DO support the death penalty. I'm referring to the list I posted early on in the thread. The U.S. is listed with Iran, Sudan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, China, North Korea, and so forth. And, for the record, apparently the U.S. has it's own jails where they torture prisoners. The way we treat our criminals is really not much different than corrupt nations.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:31 AM   #310
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about a million pages ago, someone, i think diamond, mentioned lethal injection being humane. for the record, it is anything but. it is designed to shut dwn the muscle movement, so we think they are asleep, or dying peacefully. but they aren't, they just can't move to tell us. it is nothing but a mask of the torture that is going on inside them. it is the same as torturing someone and gagging them so we can't hear their reaction and strapping them so they can't move.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:32 AM   #311
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also, to those who support the dp, we've talked about if your children were victims. but let's turn the tables. i ask you:

if your child was the murderer, would you support the dp? if you so believe that someone who kills deserves to be killed, would you be the one to pull the switch?
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:33 AM   #312
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Originally posted by unico
about a million pages ago, someone, i think diamond, mentioned lethal injection being humane. for the record, it is anything but. it is designed to shut dwn the muscle movement, so we think they are asleep, or dying peacefully. but they aren't, they just can't move to tell us. it is nothing but a mask of the torture that is going on inside them. it is the same as torturing someone and gagging them so we can't hear their reaction and strapping them so they can't move.


Not only that, but he assumed in that same post that every single person who's been convicted of murder is guilty:

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
I think we are quite humane on how we execute guilty murderers in our country.

dbs
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:49 AM   #313
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Originally posted by indra

Now Loki wants attention -- and when the Norse god of mischief wants attention, I know I best snap to it!




Quite frightening figures. But I can understand the judges and jury. If they let go someone who is guilty, and something happens, they are in an awful situation because all those who've known better all along will give them a hard time.
And the media likes to be one of them.
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:12 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
You know what the feeling I seem to get around here is - if you're not christian and you don't believe in God then you're some unmoralistic person that doesn't give two flying fucks about your fellow man, whethe r they're dead alive, a murderer, rapist etc.

I don't give a shit about what it says in the bible - surely we've seen over the last how ever number or years people justifying the worst crap in the world by the laws written in some religious book.

It also strikes me that suddenly im barbaric because I don't believe that anyone has the right to take another life. That I don't trust our legal system to be fair and honest and impartial in all senses. That i believe that maybe, in the future at some moment some people who've commited such horrible crimes may realise and mourn for what they've done. Not everyone is some hardcore sociopath. And because of these beliefs, and also because i don't believe in God - I"M the demon in the picture and the people saying god awful things like 'i'd like to kill him myself' and getting all 'its a lucky co-incidence' and coming in here with thei righteous bullshit, getting all arrogant from their religious pedestal so high - are some fucking saints because they read a book and believe every single word in there (but also twist it all to match anything they say)

wow - so forgiving and open - such "'moralistic" people.
That's the problem. First, it was implied that all criminals are atheists, and if they are Christians, then only on paper, making them atheists again. It's not the first time I get that, that we, as people who don't believe in something flying over us, are bringing all the bad, the ills and the destruction to the earth.

Then, there is this totally off comparison, that when a state doesn't have the death penalty, their jails are horror. Nothing in between.
In Europe we abolished the death penalty, as in Canada, Australia and New Zealand along with some other countries, but our prisons didn't turn into chambers of torture and horror.

How the Bible here is used to justify capital punishment undermines the secularism of the United States. You can't speak of the separation of church and state, but then use your religion to justify something that is perfectly up to the state.
If you want to justify the death penalty, and also support the separation of church and state, then you have to find another arguments, or admit that you don't intend to live in a secular country.

The insults towards non-religious people, or the implication that we don't feel for the victims is quite repulsive. Yes, the picture post was great, really.
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:46 AM   #315
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


This is how I understand the 6th Commandment:

The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" is really not as general as the King James version would indicate. The commandment actually refers to premeditated, unjustified killing - murder. Although God ordered the extermination of entire cities, He did so in righteous judgment on a people whose corruption had led to extreme wickedness, including child sacrifice. Did God destroy the righteous along with the wicked? In an exchange with Abraham, God indicated that He would spare the wicked to save the righteous. He demonstrated this principle by saving righteous people from Sodom and Jericho prior to their destruction. The charge that God indiscriminately murdered people does not hold to to critical evaluation of the biblical texts.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post

Yes, God does indeed kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in the Bible, though most are from the Old Testament. As diamond pointed out, most of those deaths were to remove those who refused to obey.

Technically, God has killed every person who has ever died.

Now let's wait for BVS to tell God to practice what he preaches.
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