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Old 08-25-2007, 05:54 PM   #196
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Mia, I'm just saying that after I had my children, my views and perspectives on certain issues had changed. Its a totally different when you think you have it all figured and then you have kids and you have to think of them as well.
I see what you are saying, since they are your own off-spring. However, as someone who will probably not have children, I don't think that makes my perspective on this any less valid or inexperienced. A psychopath took the life of my own student, as well as many others. Whenever somebody else takes the life of someone you know, care for, and/or love, that person has created a hole in your life. Nothing will ever fill that void. Not even the killer's execution. I'd feel the same if my parents faced the same feat, or my brother, or my friends, or my relatives, or anybody else in my life. I assume a certain amount of responsibility in all of my relationships.
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:10 PM   #197
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i'll go out on a limb and say that if someone did this to my child, i'd probably want to kill them. and maybe i would try to kill them. and maybe i would be successful.

but that doesn't mean that i support the death penalty.
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:37 PM   #198
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Christians aren't necessarily right.

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OK, hands up everyone who thinks caucasian = white ?
Sorry, wasn't intending to say it was wrong that he was caucasian. Just show some proof that he rather was black than white. The quote was a bit unlucky.
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:47 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico
I see what you are saying, since they are your own off-spring. However, as someone who will probably not have children, I don't think that makes my perspective on this any less valid or inexperienced. A psychopath took the life of my own student, as well as many others. Whenever somebody else takes the life of someone you know, care for, and/or love, that person has created a hole in your life. Nothing will ever fill that void. Not even the killer's execution. I'd feel the same if my parents faced the same feat, or my brother, or my friends, or my relatives, or anybody else in my life. I assume a certain amount of responsibility in all of my relationships.
To be fair, as a parent (who is also against the death penalty), I do agree with JCOSTER that the thought of certain things happening to one's children simply is more wrenching than the thought of them happening to one's parents, siblings, spouse, students, best friend or whatever. It's not a question of "my offspring, mine mine mine" or loving them more than anyone else; it's the unique and lasting and often terrifying sense of total accountability that comes with having a child (or should, anyway). The awful guilt of not having been there to protect your child in their worst moment, and the way that would intertwine with the feelings of rage, grief, shock, and emptiness you'd feel over the brutal death of anyone important to you, would quite literally be the worst emotional torment I can possibly imagine. So I do understand what it means to say that having children affects your view of these things--there's a whole new dimension to your awareness of human vulnerability that wasn't there before.

However, from a systemic perspective--which is really the only one it makes sense to analyze capital punishment from--I oppose the DP because the reality is that mistakes can be, have been and continue to be made, whether that's due to bad evidence, bad legal conduct, racism or bad laws, and this is simply not an acceptable arena to make mistakes with. On a personal level I feel absolutely no concern for what happens to John Couey himself, so long as it involves permanent exclusion from society, though I do find the idea of strangers rejoicing in executions repulsive.

I also agree that both the sentencing and rehabilitation of child molesters and the sentencing of child murderers in this country are often woefully inadequate, but unfortunately that's a separate issue and probably not one we can achieve much of a substantive discussion on in here, as it doesn't really pertain to broad general principles that can be analyzed and debated but rather the patchwork quilt of relevant laws and legal procedures across the country and all the loopholes it has in it.




And all this blather about whether true Christians molest children and what race Jesus belonged to, etc. is absolutely bonkers and has no place in this thread.
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Old 08-25-2007, 07:13 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i'll go out on a limb and say that if someone did this to my child, i'd probably want to kill them. and maybe i would try to kill them. and maybe i would be successful.

but that doesn't mean that i support the death penalty.
Who wouldn't want that?
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Old 08-25-2007, 07:18 PM   #201
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I think there are some deeply committed religious and ethical pacifists out there who sincerely wouldn't want it. I admire people like that for their consistency, but I'm not one of them.
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Old 08-25-2007, 07:25 PM   #202
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I'm sure feelings would be there. However, in the end it would destroy even more than already got destroyed, so it wouldn't be a wise choice.
I would love to have more than one kid, and a wife, plus friends and greater family. So I would just add unnecessary harm to what already has harmed all.
And I sure hope I will never have to find out.
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:14 PM   #203
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Quote:
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I'm Christian and anti-DP so stop making all of Christianity follow you.
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:50 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

On a personal level I feel absolutely no concern for what happens to John Couey himself, so long as it involves permanent exclusion from society, though I do find the idea of strangers rejoicing in executions repulsive.
FYI...I don't rejoice in executions. I do believe if found guilty with no uncertain doubt in a murder that person should be given the DP.

Even though I am a christian I don't go around telling people what they should believe.

I do however, believe that if everyone followed the 10 commandments which is basic human common sense, the issue of the death penalty and John Couey wouldn't be a discussion.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:04 PM   #205
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No she's not.
She was being sarcastic.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:06 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
I also agree that both the sentencing and rehabilitation of child molesters and the sentencing of child murderers in this country are often woefully inadequate, but unfortunately that's a separate issue and probably not one we can achieve much of a substantive discussion on in here, as it doesn't really pertain to broad general principles that can be analyzed and debated but rather the patchwork quilt of relevant laws and legal procedures across the country and all the loopholes it has in it.

And all this blather about whether true Christians molest children and what race Jesus belonged to, etc. is absolutely bonkers and has no place in this thread.
Completely agree with this.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:35 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER
I do however, believe that if everyone followed the 10 commandments which is basic human common sense, the issue of the death penalty and John Couey wouldn't be a discussion.
True, because there would be no murder (thou shall not kill) and no death penalty (you guessed it, thou shall not kill). There is no qualifier to that commandment. It doesn't say "thou shall not kill, unless the person did something truly awful," so at least through the lens of the 10 Commandments, the death penalty is wrong.

But all that is besides the point, because that's not the world we live in. The 10 commandments are not law.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:38 PM   #208
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can anyone explain to me why the u.s. needs the death penalty when most of the rest of the world doesn't anymore?
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:44 PM   #209
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state by state... We're a big country with a lot of variations in beliefs... I still think that is a pretty good way to legislate this kind of stuff. Different parts of the country will have different ways of handling this stuff.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:45 PM   #210
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I don't see why it works. There's no legitimate argument for the death penalty. I haven't seen one.
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