Just wanted to share a thought provoking email I received.. - U2 Feedback

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Old 08-06-2004, 01:41 PM   #1
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Just wanted to share a thought provoking email I received..

I can't testify taht the source of this is correct, but it is thought provoking and I thought I would share it with you.

This has a thought provoking message no matter how you believe.
Does evil exist? The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists?
A student bravely replied yes, he did!"

"God created everything?" The professor asked.
"Yes, sir," the student replied.
The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil."
The student became quiet before such an answer.
The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course," replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?" "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.
The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat.
Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.
Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.
The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?"
The professor responded, "Of course it does."
The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is?
You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present"
Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?"
Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said.
We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.
It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world.
"These manifestations are nothing else but evil."
To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."
The professor sat down.
The young mans name --- Albert Einstein
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Old 08-06-2004, 06:21 PM   #2
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Thanks for this post, therulz, it is certainly food for thought!

I agree with Einstein - Evil IS simply the absence of God.

If one has God living in their Heart and Soul, then the tendency to do harm, to speak negatively, to stand by silently as people suffer will NOT be in one's Heart/Soul and one's actions will be helpful.

YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUIT.....
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Old 08-07-2004, 03:04 AM   #3
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Evil the Absence of God? Please ellaborate, I would disagree by simply looking at the evil commited by those with strong religious conviction from The Crusades to 9/11, religion is great because it can be used to justify any action and make it divinely unquestionable and allow you to ignore the problems of others because they dont have the same beliefs or sit back and say they will simply enjoy an eternity of happiness in the afterlife. Religiously sanctioned murder, elimination of pagans and infidels, misogynism, fundamentalism are all elements that make up religion, they are inseperable parts of religion, the glue of it and no matter how hard people try to dismiss them as deviations they forget progression within religion is the only deviation from the normal. The greatest thing achievement of the civilized world has been secularism, removing religious influence on the state and ensuring that all people are free to think for themselves. Religion has been the best way to divide people since the begining of mankind and you will not see unity until everyone subscribes to the same relgion, or the entire concept is abandoned.

Five Truths of Mine

o There is no God
o Religion is control
o Good is the best parts of Humanity
o Evil is worst parts of Humanity
o Humanity can be bettered through technology, knowledge, reason and tollerance - all things that comprise the antithesis of the underlying concepts inherent within religion

The world is only going to get better if we abandon the devisive concepts of Nationalism and Religion and embrace the common humanity we all share.
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Old 08-07-2004, 03:54 AM   #4
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Oh and as for the existence of God, the concept of a sentient being with absolute power to wield over the universe who cannot be detected but chooses to show itself to a few lunatics and "messiahs" throughout all of history does seem to be a little bit too much.

There is talk of souls and afterlives with no evidence, we excuse ourselves from asking hard questions by simply inventing impossible questions that lead us to easy assumptions. Humanity invented God to excuse itself from reflecting on its own nature, by creating a moral policeman with which to control people.

We do live in a universe, we can understand the universe by studying it, only through science may we uncover the mechanisms of reality - anything less would be a simple lie. God may or may not exist, but if it does exist then I am sure that we could uncover it by understanding the universe objectively.
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Old 08-07-2004, 04:57 AM   #5
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A_W, you may want to tread a little lightly here, as you are no doubt trampling on the beliefs of many (if not most) of the people here.

As for the email...sounds like something my dad would send me.
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:23 AM   #6
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A-wanderer I find your point of view very intriguing and I can understand totally why you arrive at your point of view.. yes you are very correct about religions in the world holding mankind back and causing more divison and harm than good because the evidence of our eyes shows this..

it bothered me a lot too, but then I realised it was perhaps most of these religions are not practicing tolerance love, and you are right they put nationlism and political agenda's greed and power ahead of their fellow man even when they claim they worship some sort of God. But that does not mean that God is not good or he does not exist.. rather he is very badly represented by those religous leaders who claim they believe in him and if we do have a sense of goodness and compassion in us they are actually reflections of what God meant when he said let us make man in our image.

We live in a very technical advanced world today.. but really are we any better for it, yes it can make a lot of our lives more comfortable.. but technical advances have also led to bigger more dangerous weapons that could annilate every one on the planet

I grew up with a very sceptical view of God much like the way you feel so I do understand where you are coming from. because I seen the damage many of those who claimed to follow God or claim they were doing it for God.. or that God was on their side.. it really sickened me.

But you might be surprised to know that God does not support those religous fanatics and hypocrites he is as sickened by them as you are, and whats more you said that they need to be wiped out.. well God is going to do it.. I was rather surprised myself when I discovered this.

The problem is not with God.. as the first post claimed it is an absence of people having a love for God, And I don't mean a fear of God in the sense you are going to burn or suffer in hell or some other after life.. because that is another false and actually pagan assumption that got mixed in with Christianity and ended up turning people like yourself away.

My love for God stems from having a close personal relationship with him, by following his guidance, I would never hurt or harm another human being because it would be displeasing to him, he teaches love and tolerance and you cannot blame him for those hypocrites who say they believe in God then go around doing everything the opposite.. the truth is they are not letting the love of God have power in their lives. Jesus commandmentwas to love your enemies to love your neighbour to do good unto others to treat people how you would want treated yourself.. are these not teachings of tolerance if every one practiced these would it not be a better world? Humans say they believe in God then ignore all these commandments..
He also avoided getting involved in nationalism or politics and expected his followers to do the same.. as we see today once more they have ignored what he told them and the world is the mess that it is


but you have to understand that by doing so they are being Judged by God even more so and they will have to answer to him.
In Jesus day he called the religous leaders then hypocrites, he showed them up for what they were ..thats why they wanted to kill him and he warned us there would be hypocrites in our time

I would love to give you several examples and proof how following what God says is beneficial and is indeed the right way of life, when you do PRACTICE what you PREACH.. but I don't want to take up room in the forum so if you want to email me
my addy is annjane38@hotmail.com


You might be surprised to realise you have more in common with how God thinks and feels than you realise
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:56 AM   #7
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:58 AM   #8
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I was never turned away from belief, I never believed in the existence of God in the first place. The entire concept for better or worse just doesn't appeal to me, I think that true salvation for humanity can only be achieved if we can deliever a true peace on earth and make life worth living for everyone. It can be achieved but not through coersion or force, but mutual acceptance (which is a little hard to come by today, or well ever in human history.) I would love to see peace on earth, a world where everyone can live their lives to their full potential in freedom and without fear because I am sick of seeing the brutality in the world commited by mankind. God has nothing to do with evil in this world, that is done by man - we can also do so much good on our own and for ourselves, that is what I am trying to get at.

I can think of plenty of wonderful acts of kindness that have been done in the name of God, the charity and love shown by those that do, practice what they preace and I truly respect that. I simply think that these acts of kindness are derived from our own humanity rather than some form of divine inspiration, everybody is capable of doing a good deed - people just need a reason, religion is a very good motivator. Just as the most unmitigated acts of evil can be commited in the name of God that too comes from our humanity, or lack thereof. This is where we will begin on the track of the nature of evil and that discussion can get very deep so I wont raise it. If God exists then it would not have anything directly to do with the evil in the world, im sure that that evil would be the result of pesky free will but if God doesnt exist good and evil are simply parts of humanity.

If we all do good for the sake of humanity and try to make the world better for ourselves then if God does exist we shall be judged on the good deeds, if it doesnt exist then we will have made the world that little bit better for the next generation. Its the same basic message at the core of all religions and it is a part of commonality for the better, just without the rest of the baggage. Good knowledge is good knowledge, religion is a database of knowledge in regards to morality that helps guide billions of people, in the end its all the same basic message, I ask you why do we need this message, this good advice and knowledge to be corrupted by relgion which in itself does more bad than good?

I can tell this may get to some pretty contentious points so I will make it quite clear that when it comes to the existence of God that is pretty uncertain thing with no clear evidence, my point of view that God doesnt exist is worth just as much as somebody who thinks that God does exist, just making sure that you understand that when dealing with such a universal unknown theres not (yet) a solid answer. I do however dispute that Jesus, Mohammed or any prophet was inspired or told to do anything by an actual factual supernatural being, just dont buy that seems to be a bit of propaganda used to gain new acolytes.
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:02 PM   #9
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since I do believe that god = love
I tend to agree that in a way hate/evil is the absence of god
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Old 08-07-2004, 01:30 PM   #10
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A Wanderer....we think a lot a like.
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Old 08-07-2004, 03:34 PM   #11
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FYI, that was definitely NOT Einstein who said that. Einstein was an agnostic for most of his life. You can actually read about this here:

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp
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Old 08-07-2004, 03:44 PM   #12
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There's people who believe in a god and are evil.
There's people who believe in a god and are good.
There's people who don't believe in a god and are evil.
There's people who don't believe in a god and are good.

That's how I see it. And even so, aren't "good" and "evil" really subjective terms, anyway?

Angela
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Old 08-08-2004, 01:49 AM   #13
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Whether Einstein really said this or not, it's one of the most thought-provoking posts that I've seen in a while.

It definitely merits some serious contemplation by all of us.

I did find these two quotes of Einstein's:

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."

I think he was predicting my reception here in these forums.

"I want to know God's thoughts...the rest are details."

So, in some part of his Heart, Einstein MUST have wanted to know God.

Thanks again for this thread - I found it inspiring.
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Old 08-08-2004, 03:37 AM   #14
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Old 08-08-2004, 03:41 AM   #15
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Einstein wanted to know The Universe, if you look at his opinion of quantum mechanics in particular the copenhagen interperatation he makes it clear "God doesn't play dice", he wasnt talking about a quantum state being a choice of God, he was saying that he didnt accept uncertainty being such a large part of the universe. Looking at Einsteins own politics and philosophy as well as his beautiful General Relativity he looked at the universe and desired to understand it rather than desiring to see God in any real sense.
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