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Old 04-29-2006, 09:45 AM   #61
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Here's my thing about capitalism:
Of course the idea of free enterprise and enterpeunership sound wonderful and inspiring, the true result of a free marked is ultimately a market controlled by very few large corporations. A few hundred years ago, Marx predicted this would happen. Competition eventually leads to the successful businesses swallowing the rest. At the end of the day, only one or two entities will own everything from energy resources to mass media (GE?).
I want society to inspire people to work, to be creative; however, rather than it be for the good of a few, it should be for the good of all. And, I don't believe this is a pie in the sky philosophy. From the moment Americans enter the educational world, we are bombarded with capitalist, individualistic propaganda. Think about your math problems, ie. you work very hard painting a fence and earn $2, then you spend $1.50 on ice cream; how much money do you have left?
Is that no capitalism and consumerism at it's most basic level? It is telling the child that they are supposed to work hard and then spend most of their money on stuff.
If we were to indoctrinate the youth with a socialist philosophy, our society would be a lot better off.
many native american cultures had no concept of private property. good thing we killed them all off.

nothing lasts forever though, and neither will capitalism.
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Old 04-29-2006, 09:54 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet
Here's my thing about capitalism:
Of course the idea of free enterprise and enterpeunership sound wonderful and inspiring, the true result of a free marked is ultimately a market controlled by very few large corporations. A few hundred years ago, Marx predicted this would happen. Competition eventually leads to the successful businesses swallowing the rest. At the end of the day, only one or two entities will own everything from energy resources to mass media (GE?).
Marx's doomsday scenario probably would have come true between 1910 and 1920, had America not done the unexpected and adopt some of his ideas into capitalism. The Progressive era was responsible for everything from antitrust laws to utilities regulations to ending child labor and instituting income taxes. In other words, we had the ability to stop the inevitable "singularity" before it occurred, and we, as a nation, were much better off as a result of it.

But people are also greedy as hell, and, since the 1980s, we've started the singularity ball rolling all over again. We're certainly nowhere near the destitution approaching 1910, but I'd say give it another 30 years when all the uneducated in this country are living in poverty. Considering less than 25% of this country is considered "educated," the current "gravy train" will get derailed. Americans are generally complacent when they're employed and well-fed, but are anything but when they're not.

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Old 04-29-2006, 02:07 PM   #63
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Old 04-29-2006, 04:50 PM   #64
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Originally posted by Se7en


many native american cultures had no concept of private property. good thing we killed them all off.

nothing lasts forever though, and neither will capitalism.
I saw the best political cartoon the other day. An American Indian chief was talking to a friend and pointing at a few settler saying something like, "They refuse to learn the language; they don't really pay taxes; we need immigration reform."

There really is a lot to admire about native traditions. I am too am so grateful for Andrew Jackson.

Melon, don't you think that we are culturally conditioned to be selfish?
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Old 04-29-2006, 09:54 PM   #65
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Melon, don't you think that we are culturally conditioned to be selfish?
the very fact that past cultures have centered around communal property and collective leadership is a clear indication that we are not all "genetically" greedy. there are countless socialization mechinisms that condition us to be the way we are.
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Old 04-29-2006, 11:08 PM   #66
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the very fact that past cultures have centered around communal property and collective leadership is a clear indication that we are not all "genetically" greedy. there are countless socialization mechinisms that condition us to be the way we are.
And maybe it tells us that the progression of human history has been from primitive tribalism to advanced capitalistic individualism?

We are genetically reproductionists, the imperative is ensuring that the most of our individual genetic material survives, this doesn't make natural born capitalists or socialists - I much prefer individualist capitalism with all of it's faults and coercions - as well as innovations and successes to the blanket coercion required to make socialism work (case in point a recent study on getting people to share, they found that punishing those who didn't cooperate with the group created more effective sharing).
Quote:
Is that no capitalism and consumerism at it's most basic level? It is telling the child that they are supposed to work hard and then spend most of their money on stuff.
Yes. So what?
Quote:
If we were to indoctrinate the youth with a socialist philosophy, our society would be a lot better off.
If such a socialist project was embarked upon (again) I wonder what fate one who taught their children the wrong way would meet. If these ideas that I expouse gall you all so what means would be taken to harmonise the socialist nation, to unify the people for the common good?
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Old 04-30-2006, 01:28 AM   #67
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I'm kinda in between
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Old 04-30-2006, 04:43 AM   #68
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Old 04-30-2006, 07:08 AM   #69
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Old 04-30-2006, 08:55 PM   #70
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Old 04-30-2006, 09:36 PM   #71
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Old 05-01-2006, 12:43 AM   #72
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You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and obviously want to join the 'dandy' cult of Jesus. Online. (where the real Bush fans are)
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Old 05-01-2006, 09:25 AM   #73
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Old 05-01-2006, 10:16 AM   #74
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