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Old 05-08-2004, 09:53 AM   #1
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Judge Orders Couple Not To Have Children

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/08/co....ap/index.html

I don't know, sometimes I think in rare cases I wish this could be possible Obviously it can't, but...
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Old 05-08-2004, 10:12 AM   #2
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There are definitely people who shouldn't have children. Unfortunately there's not a heck of alot anyone can do about this.
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Old 05-08-2004, 11:45 AM   #3
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It is a tragic case however not isolated, sometimes I think the laws of the schoolyard should be applied, if two people are nothing but trouble, seperate them.
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Old 05-08-2004, 07:40 PM   #4
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It's easier to have children than buy a dog or cat....
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Old 05-08-2004, 11:17 PM   #5
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It's a very sad case. Has there been a suggestion of parenting classes rather than just ordering them not to have any more children? I don't think they should have any more children, but whether or not a court should be able to enforce that ... it's a tricky question.
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:16 AM   #6
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And I thought it was bad when I heard on the news some deadbeat dads were being ordered to get vasectemies or go to jail Yes I really did hear that. If they have children by more than one woman and owe more than $10,000 in back payments they can choose vasectemy over jail. Guess he still doesn't have to pay then? I don't know, messing with people's organs is, wrong. Like in the old days when they sterilized mental patients without their knowledge. Yes it's true people should be more responsible, but taking away their fertility, that's harsh.
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Old 05-09-2004, 03:32 PM   #7
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In general I would say that this is a violation of rights. But on a personal level, I'd never disagree. Those people deserve to be sterilized AND punished. Besides, a vasectomy is reversible so if, God willing, these people grew up and turned around, they could still have children. It's one of those cases where SOMEONE's rights are going to be violated and it's only a matter of decided whose (the parents or the childs). I think destroying the life of an innocent child is far worse than removing the right of an adult to be as irresponsible as possible.
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Old 05-09-2004, 04:32 PM   #8
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"I think what the judge is trying to do is kind of have a wake-up call for society," he said

I hope society is listening
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
...It's one of those cases where SOMEONE's rights are going to be violated and it's only a matter of decided whose (the parents or the childs). I think destroying the life of an innocent child is far worse than removing the right of an adult to be as irresponsible as possible.
Indeed.
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
In general I would say that this is a violation of rights. But on a personal level, I'd never disagree. Those people deserve to be sterilized AND punished. Besides, a vasectomy is reversible so if, God willing, these people grew up and turned around, they could still have children. It's one of those cases where SOMEONE's rights are going to be violated and it's only a matter of decided whose (the parents or the childs). I think destroying the life of an innocent child is far worse than removing the right of an adult to be as irresponsible as possible.
Agreed.

I have 4 nieces and nephews who are permanently in the care of others...3 families have taken on the burden of raising someone else's very messed up children because my even more messed up sister had NO business bringing kids into this world. These poor kids are going to pay for her mistakes for the rest of their lives.

I know it sounds harsh to take away someone's reproductive rights but its even worse to watch people who can't even make a rational decision about their own lives bring baby after baby into the world.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:41 PM   #11
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Yeah I agree those people don't deserve to have kids
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:24 PM   #12
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It sounds too Hitlerish to me He did stuff like that to people he didn't want to "breed." Are we to stoop to that, choosing who is and isn't a good candidate for breeding?
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife


Agreed.

I have 4 nieces and nephews who are permanently in the care of others...3 families have taken on the burden of raising someone else's very messed up children because my even more messed up sister had NO business bringing kids into this world. These poor kids are going to pay for her mistakes for the rest of their lives.
But does that mean those kids should be regarded as 'mistakes' or 'problems' that should never have been allowed to exist? As a person, that attitude couldn't do much for their self esteem. They will not always be kids in someone else's care, someday they will be adults with lives of their own who should count for something. They could be like their parents, or they could learn from it and be determined NOT to end up that way and make a difference in the world in a positive way.

Quote:
I know it sounds harsh to take away someone's reproductive rights but its even worse to watch people who can't even make a rational decision about their own lives bring baby after baby into the world.
Some people who get abortions aren't fit to make rational decisions either but their 'reproductive freedom' is always defended. Shouldn't that go both ways? If people don't want the government or courts to dictate to them about that, then why should it be allowed to control their reproductive freedom like this? There has to be a better way to teach responisibility than these Hitlerlike tactics!
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Old 05-11-2004, 06:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wild Angel
It sounds too Hitlerish to me He did stuff like that to people he didn't want to "breed." Are we to stoop to that, choosing who is and isn't a good candidate for breeding?
Oh come on, Hitler was a fascist pig that had personal, political, and religious agendas against Jews, gypsies, and homosexuals. I think we all know that this is NOT the case here. Those parents ignored judge's orders in the past. There's a HUGE difference between someone being prepared to raise a family and then being sterilized just because of there race and someone popping out babies, neglecting them, and leaving them in the care of protective services. You can't possibly compare this to Hitler....I for one find that incredibly rediculous not to mention disrespectful.

Like I said before, you're forgetting that there are other people involved: the children. THEY have rights too, just as many as the parents. They do not deserve to suffer.

Quote:
The judge is not forcing contraception on the couple nor is she requiring the mother to get an abortion should she become pregnant.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wild Angel


But does that mean those kids should be regarded as 'mistakes' or 'problems' that should never have been allowed to exist? As a person, that attitude couldn't do much for their self esteem. They will not always be kids in someone else's care, someday they will be adults with lives of their own who should count for something. They could be like their parents, or they could learn from it and be determined NOT to end up that way and make a difference in the world in a positive way.


Of course not. I never said they were "problems" or shouldn't be here and no one in their lives right now would ever make them think they aren't wanted or loved. But, the sad fact is, they have been in therapy for the past 4 years and it doesn't look like there is an end in sight...they continue to have problems and those problems won't disappear when they hit adulthood. Addiction is genetic and despite being raised by loving adoptive families, they are still at risk. They are wonderful kids but they ARE damaged emotionally.

What I am saying is they didn't ask to be in 7 foster homes before the age of 5 and they didn't ask to born with drugs in their systems. They didn't deserve to live in filthy motels and be so scared of abandonment, they couldn't sleep alone for years after they were adopted. And the person who did this to them, their birth mother, is still fertile and can do this to 4 more kids if she so chooses. They can lock her up for using drugs and writing bad checks, but they can't undo the damage she's done to the innocent kids she brought into this world. If I had it in my power to ban her from getting pregnant again, I would.

Quote:
Some people who get abortions aren't fit to make rational decisions either but their 'reproductive freedom' is always defended. Shouldn't that go both ways? If people don't want the government or courts to dictate to them about that, then why should it be allowed to control their reproductive freedom like this? There has to be a better way to teach responisibility than these Hitlerlike tactics!
We are talking about people who have a proven track record of neglect and abuse who REFUSE to stop having more babies. If you can't feed them and give them basic care, you have no right to keep repeating the cycle.
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