John Kerry's words in 1971 about Vietnam attacked by White House worker. - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 04-29-2004, 09:09 PM   #16
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:13 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Popmartijn

Another opponent of these systems was Dick Cheney, since he also proposed to get rid of these artifacts of the Cold War.

Then I suggest you check your facts (pun fully intended).

C ya!

Marty (who, based on the FactCheck website, wonders if there are any truthful ads used in the campaign)

Well, here is another one where factcheck misses the "context" which it so often claims the Republicans missed.

Kerry campaigned against the above conventional weapon systems including the Apache Attack Helicopter in 1984 when production for it and many other new weaponsystems was just starting up. By 1989, the Army had already outfitted most of its active duty units with Apache Attack Helicopters. It is at that point that Cheney wanted to save money for procuring a new weapon systems by stopping all production of the Apache by 1991.

Here is the difference:

In 1984, the Army had just started to recieve their first Apache's when Mr. Kerry ran for the US Senate that year wanting to cancel the entire program in which case few if any of the Apache's would have been delivered to the Army.

In 1989, Cheney wants to stop production of the Apache within 2 years by sometime in 1991. When Cheney said this, the Army had 454 Apache Attack Helicopters and by June 1, 1992 when Cheney was still Sec of Defense, the Army had 712 Apache Attack Helicopters.

Cheney's cut would have only prevented a small number of Units from recieving the Apache. The Army never planned to build more than 1,000 of them and by June 1, 1992 under Cheney they had 712. The money saved from not building all the Apache's would then go into Research and Development and procurment of a new weapon systems including the next generation attack helicopter to replace the Apache. It was money that would stay within the defense budget to be used for other vital needs of the Army.

In contrast if Kerry had is way, the Army would of had at most 20 or 30 Apache's if he had succeeded in getting the weapon system blocked in 1984/1985. Kerry planned to cut that money from the defense budget.

Of course, you will not hear these things from ( since it obvious that they are a pro- Kerry and Democrat website who attempt to appear to be unbiased and a-political.

( selectively uses facts, something they accuse Republicans of doing.

That is why they will not tell you the difference between what Kerry did in 1984 and what Cheney did in 1989 in regards to the Apache.

They fail to tell you when the Apache first started to enter service with the Army. They fail to tell you how many Apache's had been built when Cheney recommended ending production in a couple of years. They fail to tell you the number of Apache's the Army had by 1991/1992. They fail to clearly point out the difference between canceling the Apache program in 1984 when few if any of the Apache's had entered service with stopping production in 1991 when most if not all of the Apache's had been built and delivered to the Army. They do not clearly tell you that the money from Cheney' cuts in the Apache program starting in 1991 would go to procurment of other weapon systems and would not leave the military budget unlike what Kerry had proposed in 1984.

From now on in the future, I'd suggest you treat with as much scrutiny as you would any other political party website. does have a range of information that is definitely correct, but without a doubt it is NOT the bible to go to for all facts. It is also not unbiased or a-political.

My sources for the number of Apache in possession by the US Army in 1989 and 1992 came from the London based IISS, International Institute for Strategic Studies, Military Balance books for 1989-1990 and 1992-1993.

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Old 04-29-2004, 10:35 PM   #18
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hey sting2 did you get your username from nirvana unplugged?

"no, that's sting one....that's sting 2"

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