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Old 12-22-2005, 01:47 PM   #31
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Originally posted by Irvine511
[B]actually, i think they're more self-empowerment-through-Christ types. like, how faith in Jesus can help you get a better low-interest mortgage and help you communicate better with your estranged parents. they do sell lots of books, i think.
Even if they are (which is a theology I obviously disagree with), I don't think that justifies the "LMAO" smiley at the situation.

And considering what I do for a living, I'm more than a tad sensitive at those who point out the faults of religious leaders and immediatley tout "hypocrite!". We might work in the God business, but it unfortunately doesn't make us any more than normal, and we have our faults just like the rest. It's a very delicate and difficult balance to try to lead others to a greater spiritual place, and deal with the assumptions that you already are, or should already be, there yourself. But this isn't "Ask the Pastor."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irvine511
[B]
Quote:
aw, me too. i'm crabby as well, and have mountains of work to do
Remember the days when late December meant MORE free time and laziness? Yeah, that nice. Whatever happend to that?
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Old 12-22-2005, 02:43 PM   #32
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What happened to it? We became adults and realized that not only was Santa not really our gift buyer, but that we had to replace him. Ugh.

Sorry, I think most of what I was saying was to justify why this article was posted. I think it's an interesting jumping point for debate.

Look, if you did something wrong, fess up to it. I'm not the best person in the world, I've made mistakes, I've had to apologize to people before. Who hasn't? But to have a PR guy say it was a minor incident is just cover-up. A "minor" incident does not involve being asked to leave a flight, it does not involve 150 people in a plane being inconvenienced and it does not involve an hour delay. If she was tired and cranky and that's why something occured, then say "I'm a human and I was tired and cranky. Sorry." Instead, she writes some dumb letter about all the wonderful support from people and how she didn't do anything that would "cast a bad light on you, my family, Lakewood Church or our Lord Jesus Christ." Gee, glad to know you didn't cast a bad light on my Savior. But NEVER in that letter did she apologize to the people she inconvienced. In fact, she never mentions sorry or apologize or inconvenience in that letter at all.

And what is this crap about? "As many of you have told me, I know that God has me in the palm of His hand. My confidence in God is stronger than ever—and I know that He is faithful to His promises." God has her in the palm of His hand as she goes through this tough and difficult time with an airline? Honey, that's the stuff you say when you have cancer or a loved one dies. God held me in the palm of His hand in Lower Manhattan on 9/11. You were on a plane to a beautiful resort town that 80% of Americans can't afford -- not the same thing!

We've had so many religion discussions on here, some good and some bad. But this letter of hers is really what irked me. Maybe it's just from my own personal experience, but I've found the people in my life who are the most faithful are the people who humbly walk with Jesus, not use him as a crutch whenever they need to divert attention from their actions.
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Old 12-22-2005, 02:50 PM   #33
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lamest post over
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Old 12-22-2005, 03:35 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
What happened to it? We became adults and realized that not only was Santa not really our gift buyer, but that we had to replace him. Ugh.

Sorry, I think most of what I was saying was to justify why this article was posted. I think it's an interesting jumping point for debate.

Look, if you did something wrong, fess up to it. I'm not the best person in the world, I've made mistakes, I've had to apologize to people before. Who hasn't? But to have a PR guy say it was a minor incident is just cover-up. A "minor" incident does not involve being asked to leave a flight, it does not involve 150 people in a plane being inconvenienced and it does not involve an hour delay. If she was tired and cranky and that's why something occured, then say "I'm a human and I was tired and cranky. Sorry." Instead, she writes some dumb letter about all the wonderful support from people and how she didn't do anything that would "cast a bad light on you, my family, Lakewood Church or our Lord Jesus Christ." Gee, glad to know you didn't cast a bad light on my Savior. But NEVER in that letter did she apologize to the people she inconvienced. In fact, she never mentions sorry or apologize or inconvenience in that letter at all.

And what is this crap about? "As many of you have told me, I know that God has me in the palm of His hand. My confidence in God is stronger than ever—and I know that He is faithful to His promises." God has her in the palm of His hand as she goes through this tough and difficult time with an airline? Honey, that's the stuff you say when you have cancer or a loved one dies. God held me in the palm of His hand in Lower Manhattan on 9/11. You were on a plane to a beautiful resort town that 80% of Americans can't afford -- not the same thing!

We've had so many religion discussions on here, some good and some bad. But this letter of hers is really what irked me. Maybe it's just from my own personal experience, but I've found the people in my life who are the most faithful are the people who humbly walk with Jesus, not use him as a crutch whenever they need to divert attention from their actions.
I agree. Her letter was very self serving and overly dramatic. The poor, poor, dear. (where is that drama queen smilie when you need it? )

As for the initial incident, I'm sorry, but how fucking hard is it to sit down and shut the fuck up on a plane? That's all you are asked to do when on a plane.

It's certainly not a big deal, but it is amusing. And it's even more amusing to see people get their shorts in a twist over it being posted too.
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:30 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
Look, if you did something wrong, fess up to it. I'm not the best person in the world, I've made mistakes, I've had to apologize to people before. Who hasn't? But to have a PR guy say it was a minor incident is just cover-up. A "minor" incident does not involve being asked to leave a flight, it does not involve 150 people in a plane being inconvenienced and it does not involve an hour delay. If she was tired and cranky and that's why something occured, then say "I'm a human and I was tired and cranky. Sorry." Instead, she writes some dumb letter about all the wonderful support from people and how she didn't do anything that would "cast a bad light on you, my family, Lakewood Church or our Lord Jesus Christ." Gee, glad to know you didn't cast a bad light on my Savior. But NEVER in that letter did she apologize to the people she inconvienced. In fact, she never mentions sorry or apologize or inconvenience in that letter at all.

And what is this crap about? "As many of you have told me, I know that God has me in the palm of His hand. My confidence in God is stronger than ever—and I know that He is faithful to His promises." God has her in the palm of His hand as she goes through this tough and difficult time with an airline? Honey, that's the stuff you say when you have cancer or a loved one dies. God held me in the palm of His hand in Lower Manhattan on 9/11. You were on a plane to a beautiful resort town that 80% of Americans can't afford -- not the same thing!
I can agree with this. Her reaction letter was over the top, and did miss the point. Frankly, I think it's a little weird for a pastor's wife to have a PR person, but to each his own.

But my objection was not that article was posted, but the manner in which it was posted. I guess I just don't see the humor in pointing fingers at someone else's misfortune.
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:31 PM   #36
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Originally posted by indra
And it's even more amusing to see people get their shorts in a twist over it being posted too.
It's boxer-briefs, thank you very much.
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:43 PM   #37
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Originally posted by stammer476


It's boxer-briefs, thank you very much.


me too.

hot.







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Old 12-22-2005, 04:44 PM   #38
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me too.

hot.







It's the only way to go. I could go Seinfeldian in my explanation, but I'm at work.
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Old 12-22-2005, 05:15 PM   #39
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i suppose the reason for the posting of the article is that this couple holds themselves up as models of those who live their life in Christ -- and make a lot of $$$ doing so.

it points out a discrepancy between how they present themselves -- in order to make money -- and who they really are, which is flawed people just like the rest of us.
I wonder if we would be willing to live with the same level of scrutiny that we decide to place on others - even people we deem role models in society?
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Old 12-22-2005, 05:18 PM   #40
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I wonder if we would be willing to live with the same level of scrutiny that we decide to place on others - even people we deem role models in society?
ROFLMAO.....

Yeah...I wonder....

I have a hard enough time walking through malls as me.
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Old 12-22-2005, 06:32 PM   #41
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I wonder if we would be willing to live with the same level of scrutiny that we decide to place on others - even people we deem role models in society?


but not all of us are making gobs of money off of holding ourselves up as models of virtue.
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Old 12-22-2005, 07:37 PM   #42
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Here is an interesting article on this situation from the Houston Chronicle (Dec. 21, 2005)

Dec. 21, 2005, 7:29AM
Osteen family leaves plane after dispute

FBI agent says the pastor's wife didn't follow a flight attendant's instructions


By ARMANDO VILLAFRANCA and HARVEY RICE
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

A dispute involving the wife of Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen delayed holiday travel plans for a planeload of passengers, but few details were released Tuesday.

At least some people aboard the Continental Airlines flight were less than pleased after waiting about two hours at Bush Intercontinental Airport while the Osteens left the plane and their luggage was removed, said a woman who witnessed the incident.

"She was just abusive," said Sheila Steele, who said she was sitting behind Victoria Osteen. "She was just like one of those divas."

A church spokesman said the couple and their children left the plane voluntarily after the incident Monday and took another flight to Vail, Colo.

However, FBI Special Agent Luz Garcia said the Osteens were asked to leave the jetliner after an "altercation." She said Victoria Osteen "failed to comply" with instructions from the flight attendant. She added that no one was detained.

The incident occurred in the first class section on Flight 1602. Continental spokeswoman Julie King declined to give details.

The Osteens could not be reached for comment, and the Chronicle was unable to contact other passengers to corroborate Steele's version of events. However, the Vail Daily newspaper reported similar accounts of the incident from other first-class passengers.

Passenger Barbara Griffith told the Colorado paper that Joel Osteen was "very calm, very professional."

Lakewood Church spokesman Donald Iloff said Victoria Osteen contacted a flight attendant after noticing that a liquid had been spilled on her seat. The spill apparently was not cleaned up to her satisfaction, Iloff said. The family left the plane voluntarily and took another flight, Iloff said.

The airline issued a statement saying corporate policy forbids identifying passengers.

"There have been various accounts regarding events that occurred on one of our flights," the statement added. "We can confirm that there are no remaining issues between (Continental Airlines) and those passengers, and therefore, both parties feel no further comment is necessary."

Steele said Victoria Osteen was upset about liquid on her pull-down tray and asked a flight attendant to have it cleaned. When the attendant, who was carrying paperwork to the cockpit, told her she couldn't do it immediately, Osteen replied, "Fine, get me a stewardess who can," Steele said.

She said Victoria Osteen pushed a flight attendant and tried to get into the cockpit. Passengers quoted in the Colorado paper did not address those details.

Soon after, authorities were called to the plane, she said, although it was not clear Tuesday whether they were airline officials.

Garcia said Continental officials contacted the FBI about the incident. The agency decided not to investigate.

"It was quickly resolved between the airline and the Osteens," Garcia said.

Steele said she and other passengers were upset that they had to wait about two hours while the Osteens' baggage was removed from the plane.

Joel Osteen is a nationally known author of self-help books.

He became pastor of Lakewood Church in October 1999, building it into what some observers say is the largest church in the U.S.

Victoria Osteen also preaches and plays a significant role at the church.

The congregation in July moved into the 16,000-seat Compaq Center.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3538956.html



What an embarassment it is when an FBI agent busts you.

And to have passengers on the airplane (the passenger in the seat next to Osteen's wife) rip on you like that!


My question is: is this the sort of behavior that is appropriate for the wife of a guy who wraps himself up in the flag and thumps his Bible to act?

WHERE IS THE RESPECT FOR AUTHORITY? WHERE IS THE RESPECT FOR THE LAW?

My God, WHERE IS THE RESPECT FOR HER FELLOW PASSENGERS WHO ARE ALSO CHILDREN OF GOD AND DESERVE THE RESPECT NOT TO BE HELD UP FOR HOURS FOR THIS LADY TO HAVE A HISSY FIT?

Simply put, Victoris Osteen's behavior can't be justified if you looking at the facts of this case.

Irvive511 had it partially right and I just filled in the rest.

It is amazing to me that anyone could excuse her behavior.


And this is as much worthy of a place in this forum as 90% of the other threads that I have seen here.

If it wasn't news, the media wouldn't have picked it up and all the 412 people who have come into this thread would have gone elsewhere.

WHEN YOU SET YOURSELF UP AS A ROLE MODEL IN THE MEDIA AND BECOME FILTHY RICH AT IT THUMPING YOUR BIBILE,

you have a responsibility to act the part.

In other words, WALK YOUR TALK OR ZIP YOUR LIP!


(you may flame away now)

Happy Holidays.
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Old 12-22-2005, 08:49 PM   #43
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but not all of us are making gobs of money off of holding ourselves up as models of virtue.
I've never watched the Osteen's program, but I take it you are familiar with their show.

Do they actually declare themselves as models of virtue?

or

Do you personally see them as models of virtue?

or

Do you think they get set up on a pedestal so they can be knocked off?
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Old 12-22-2005, 08:52 PM   #44
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She seems a bit "out of touch with reality" judging by that letter...but I don't see why there needs to be a whole thread dedicated to poking fun at her.
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:04 PM   #45
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.but I don't see why there needs to be a whole thread dedicated to poking fun at her.
Good question. There are a number of virtues out there. Taking the high road, tolerance, open mindedness, etc.
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