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Old 11-27-2005, 09:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
Until the day the American public does not force its secret service to make all the classified documents regarding JFKs death public, there is absolutely no sense in speculating about all that.
I am curious about what documents you are referring too.

The Secret Service has released much of it's stuff. The driver of Kennedy's vehicle violated protocol by slowing down to almost 5 MPH after the first shot, when protocol calls for him to step on it.

The Secret Service has not explained to my satisfaction WHY the windshield was replaced in the vehicle. If the windshield was not hit with a bullet from the front, why the big secrecy surrounding the windshield? Apparently there may have been a shooter in the storm drain under the bridge?

But the CIA and the FBI have many more documents to be explained.
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Old 11-27-2005, 09:24 AM   #17
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Originally posted by phanan
I always liked Oliver Stone's JFK.
Stone blended too many theories into the movie. He ignores Garrison's connections to the MOB. Garrison hit on some of the main players in my opinion, David Ferrie in particular.

After the Stone movie critics argued that there was never any evidence of a David Ferrie/Lee Oswald connection. After the movie a picture turned up and indeed Oswald and Ferrie were in the Civil Air Patrol together.

Ferrie worked for the CIA and the Mob on many projects, Bay of Pigs ect.

Given the mob hit on Oswald ala Ruby, my gut tells me that this was a Mob assasination. The problem is, that the mob and the CIA were working together on trying to get rid of Castro, that the lines are blended together giving rise to may conspiracies Mob VS. CIA. The reality is they were working together.

My predictions are that years from now it will be revealed that Gearge HW Bush was one of the main CIA guys who organized the Bay of Pigs. The Secret Code name for the Operation based on the materials I have read at the Kennedy Library was Zapata (Name of Bush's Oil Company). Two of the boats used to send the Cuban's into Cuba were named Barbara and Houston. Not enough to state conclusively, but enough to raise an eyebrow.

Many of the men who worked on the Bay of Pigs were arrested in the Watergate break ins, and one was involved in Iran Contra. Nixon repeatedly refers to the "Bay of Pigs" thing blowing up to his staff. I believe it is ALL related.

And now my wife is rolling here eyes begging me to not spiral into this topic. I have to go. I can continue some other time.

George de Mohrenschildt, a man interviewed by the Warren Commision who was supposed to be interviewed by the 1978 House Committee on Assasinations mysteriously died days before he was supposed to testify. He was friends with both Oswald and George HW Bush. His true story has yet to come out.

I truly believe that Lee was in some way a member of the intelligence community. I believe that he was also a nut job. Nutty enough to have been set up to look like he did it alone. Many people do not realize that before he tried to kill Kennedy he tried to kill General Walker six months earlier, but failed adding to the nuttiness of Lee. However, you cannot explain the Ruby hit away. Leading me to a mob hit.

Interesting timeline

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oswald.htm
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Old 11-27-2005, 10:27 AM   #18
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Ah, the White Russians
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Old 11-27-2005, 10:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Stone blended too many theories into the movie. He ignores Garrison's connections to the MOB. Garrison hit on some of the main players in my opinion, David Ferrie in particular.
Oh, I agree. I wish he had just stayed true to Garrison's theory.

But it was still entertaining nonetheless.
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Old 11-27-2005, 01:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


I am curious about what documents you are referring too.
f.e. details about the obduction of JFK by Humes. What happened on the flight to Bethesda etc.; the time in the hospital in Dallas was described by the Doctors (who had severe problems with Secret Service agents) but from that point there are no documents as far as I know
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Old 11-27-2005, 01:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Stone blended too many theories into the movie. He ignores Garrison's connections to the MOB. Garrison hit on some of the main players in my opinion, David Ferrie in particular.
Garrison explains Ferries role but in his book he lays out why he thinks the mob (or the exile Cubans for that matter) is not responsible.
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Old 11-27-2005, 02:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Garrison explains Ferries role but in his book he lays out why he thinks the mob (or the exile Cubans for that matter) is not responsible.
Then explain Jack Ruby? Garrison and I disagree...and he would lay out why the mob was not responsible because, shocker, he was also on the payroll of Carlos Marcello.
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Old 11-27-2005, 04:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Then explain Jack Ruby? Garrison and I disagree...and he would lay out why the mob was not responsible because, shocker, he was also on the payroll of Carlos Marcello.
Me, explain Ruby? I got no clue.

Its always important to look at the background. Why would the mob want to murder Kennedy, and isn´t an American President a shoesize too big. The mafia does not have the power to rearrange things in the way they were rearranged after Kennedy´s death. Could it be that Ruby had a gangster background to cover up his secret service operations.

I don´t buy the mob theory. Conservative hardliners had more reason to be interested in Kennedy´s death. Coup d´etat.
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Old 11-27-2005, 04:35 PM   #24
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The Mob and the CIA were intertwined. They were both working to remove Castro. Robert Kennedy had the New Orleans Mob boss deported illegally (See Mafia Kingfish)and the operations shut down. They shut down the military support for the Bay of Pigs.

Ruby was mob. Period. Garrison would not have pointed the finger at the mob. Interstingly I still need to read his book.

As for the "Cubans". Frank Sturgis, E Howard Hunt, Felix Rodriguez, all involved in the Bay of Pigs, and all involved in Watergate. One involved in Iran Contra. If Bush ran the Bay of Pigs operation as I believe, he would have been very pissed off at its failure and lack of support from Kennedy.

If these players were connected to Marcello through Bannister (FORMER FBI and Ferrie) both with conncections to Marcello, both with connections to the CIA, isn't it remotely possible that both the mob and the CIA overlaps at the time have caused confusion for peope trying to investigate the assasination?
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Old 11-27-2005, 05:54 PM   #25
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yeah .. haven´t read the book for some time but Garrison kinda made his point. Talks a whole lot about Bannister and the location of his bureau where Oswald went etc.

Remotely possible for sure when we acknowledge that everything about JFKs death is speculation.
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Old 11-27-2005, 09:29 PM   #26
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"Dreadsox" has a great point about George HW Bush. Apparently he was in Dallas the day Kennedy was shot - all that is in the memo is "CIA agent George Bush" - Bush has denied it was him and even the CIA has said it was another agent whose name was George Bush...I say hogwash - these people LIE for a living. Given what's happened since JFK's death I have every reason to suspect George HW Bush as one of the major conspirators in the assasination of JFK!!!
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Old 11-28-2005, 01:15 AM   #27
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I drive home down that same lane in Dallas every weekday. No big whoop. Not even that many people there for the 42nd.
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Old 11-28-2005, 06:39 AM   #28
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Originally posted by Harry Vest
"Dreadsox" has a great point about George HW Bush. Apparently he was in Dallas the day Kennedy was shot - all that is in the memo is "CIA agent George Bush" - Bush has denied it was him and even the CIA has said it was another agent whose name was George Bush...I say hogwash - these people LIE for a living. Given what's happened since JFK's death I have every reason to suspect George HW Bush as one of the major conspirators in the assasination of JFK!!!
I think it was his people. I am not certain it was on his orders.

There were plenty of other people who were in Dallas on that same day. Richard Nixon.

The mayor of Dallas, was related to the General in charge of the air support that never happened durinmg the Bay of Pigs.

You can go crazy thinking that because so and so was in the area it must be him.

Bush was a Texas politician. There are many reasons he would have been in Dallas.

The exact memo you are reffering to says that Bush was briefed on the Cuban communities reaction, Bush had been the handler of many Cubans in the southern region. It does not prove a governement conspiracy, but does indicate he was a member of an organization long before he has admitted belonging to it.
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Old 11-28-2005, 12:03 PM   #29
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JFK

Watch JFK movie-Oliver Stone- it will send chills down your spine! The History Channel just had a special on JFK and reports that more people believe the movie to be the truth than any government report.
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Old 11-28-2005, 02:13 PM   #30
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Re: JFK

Quote:
Originally posted by mumbler
Watch JFK movie-Oliver Stone- it will send chills down your spine! The History Channel just had a special on JFK and reports that more people believe the movie to be the truth than any government report.
This too me is a shame that they find it to be the truth. Stone like any artist took liberties.

It is a good starting point.
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