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Old 01-08-2006, 10:52 PM   #46
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


First, the stereotype that the conservative Christians do not take part in helping the poor is unfortunate. There are plenty of conservatives who do more than just talk about issues and actual invest of themselves for these causes.
Robertson did, after all, participate in the ONE campaign.

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Second, as a matter of interpretation, the use of only Jesus’ words and actions simply opens up interpretation to another agenda (irrespective that you think the agenda is better than someone elses) Now we are only overlaying our own ideas on certain aspects of Jesus’ behavior (as we choose to view his behavior). And does this not also diminish other parts of Scripture to a lesser status – kind of a “red letter” interpretation methodology?”
The Jesus Seminar takes it to the next level by actually going through and figuring out what they'd like to think Jesus actually said -- red letters within red letters, so to speak. A highly subjective methodology used to buttress an allegedly unbiased agenda.
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:19 AM   #47
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Well, this thread has made me realize one thing: I'm hungry. TIme for breakfast.
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:38 AM   #48
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
the point was that the life and words of Jesus are full, fuller, overflowing - on the topic of social justice, equality, the nobility of giving away and poverty, and of turning the other cheek.
Was the other cheek turned for David Irving?
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:48 PM   #49
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Originally posted by anitram


You know, that might be the easy answer, but you ask a gay man how "ridiculous" the amount of clout and support that Falwell's and Robertson's and their ilk's views have. Ask a woman who strongly believes in her right to choose how ridiculous it is. I mean it's easy to write them off as nutbags that they are, but the reality is that they are NOT just crazy people. They are political figures in their own right with a huge following, a powerful lobby. These are people who got your ineffective and stupid Congress to get on planes in the middle of the night so they could go vote to save a vegetative corpse of Schiavo. Now you tell me that it's all just ridiculous. It may be in principle, but they are getting some things done, so you don't have the luxury of just saying who cares, they're crazies.

I will always speak out about the nutbags within Christianity, be it left wing, right wing, Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, whatever. I feel it is partly my responsibility because they reflect on me as a Christian, and because any change and any revolution comes from within. If we are not willing to put up a fight, then who is?

Frankly, I think it's dangerous to say that these fundamentalists are simply crazy or simply ridiculous. It does nothing to solve the problem of their influence in our secular society. And yes, many of us have interests like AIDS in Africa or, personally for me, cancer research, but that doesn't mean that you turn a blind eye on what's going on in your own backyard.


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Old 01-09-2006, 05:02 PM   #50
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'Justice Sunday' hails religious liberty

January 9, 2006

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- Conservatives rallied in defense of religious liberty and in favor of reforming the federal courts on the eve of Senate confirmation hearings for Supreme Court nominee Judge Samuel A. Alito Jr.
The evening rally, dubbed "Justice Sunday III," was held in the state where Judge Alito sits on the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
Sen. Rick Santorum, Pennsylvania Republican, told the gathering that liberal judges are "destroying traditional morality, creating a new moral code and prohibiting any dissent."
"The only way to restore this republic our founders envisioned is to elevate honorable jurists like Samuel Alito," Mr. Santorum said. "Unfortunately, the Democrats on the Judiciary Committee seem poised to drag these hearings into the gutter so they can continue their far left judicial activism on the Supreme Court."
The Rev. Jerry Falwell and Focus on the Family founder James Dobson also attended the event.
Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, which organized the event, said the event was a response to rulings such as last year's 5-4 Supreme Court decision prohibiting a display of the Ten Commandments in Kentucky, and a federal judge's declaration that reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools is unconstitutional.
"The demand by judges that a Christian check his or her faith at the door before entering the public realm is a tyrannical use of judicial power, and it must cease," Mr. Perkins said at a press conference before the event.
Liberal groups and some religious leaders organized a protest at the rally, maintaining that the sponsors of "Justice Sunday" back a dangerous mixing of church and state and an agenda that threatens civil rights.
The Rev. Herbert Lusk, pastor of Greater Exodus Baptist Church, where "Justice Sunday III" was held, drew the ire of some activists when he endorsed President Bush during the 2000 Republican National Convention. The church's charitable arm was awarded nearly $1 million in federal money in 2002 to help low-income Philadelphians with mortgages. Mr. Bush spoke at the church in 2004.

people can say what they want

there is a religious right that holds a lot of sway within GOP politics

and especially with this Administation

The Rev. Jerry Falwell and

Focus on the Family founder James Dobson


and

Santorum

and

Faith based taxpayor money


it's all there

some just turn there heads and say

I don't see it.
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:28 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
people can say what they want

there is a religious right that holds a lot of sway within GOP politics

and especially with this Administation

The Rev. Jerry Falwell and

Focus on the Family founder James Dobson
All you have here are quotes from Falwell, Dobson, etc. weighing in on matters of national significance.

To equate this to "a lot of sway within GOP politics" is a convenient leap in logic. Instead of dealing with the issues, this tries to bypass discussion with demonized individuals.

It is no better than avoiding a topic because it was linked to by Drudge.
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:41 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


All you have here are quotes from Falwell, Dobson, etc. weighing in on matters of national significance.

To equate this to "a lot of sway within GOP politics" is a convenient leap in logic. Instead of dealing with the issues, this tries to bypass discussion with demonized individuals.

It is no better than avoiding a topic because it was linked to by Drudge.

did you miss this part?
Quote:
and

Santorum

and

Faith based taxpayor money
Quote:
Rev. Herbert Lusk, pastor of Greater Exodus Baptist Church, where "Justice Sunday III" was held, drew the ire of some activists when he endorsed President Bush during the 2000 Republican National Convention. The church's charitable arm was

awarded nearly $1 million in federal money

in 2002 to help low-income Philadelphians with mortgages. Mr. Bush spoke at the church in 2004.
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:46 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader




To equate this to "a lot of sway within GOP politics" is a convenient leap in logic. Instead of dealing with the issues

it is a given

by any reasonable observer

that the Religious Right took out Hariet Miers.
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Old 01-09-2006, 06:25 PM   #54
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Boy, this sure has gotten off-track.

Could it be that no one has an answer for the original question?
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:22 PM   #55
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^
The original question, as has been universally agreed, was posted by a troller.

One could ask the question, "What were Jesus' words on anti-semitism/pornography/child abuse?" Since He was silent on such issues, one could assume that He had no opinion on the issue...

...instead of realizing that deeper principles undergirded His teachings, and intelligently address those.
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:45 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
it is a given

by any reasonable observer

that the Religious Right took out Hariet Miers.
Great.

No longer need facts.

Its all just a given.
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:46 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
^
The original question, as has been universally agreed, was posted by a troller.

One could ask the question, "What were Jesus' words on anti-semitism/pornography/child abuse?" Since He was silent on such issues, one could assume that He had no opinion on the issue...

...instead of realizing that deeper principles undergirded His teachings, and intelligently address those.
I wish we could get to that level of analysis. We've only lightly touched on interpretive methodologies and how to apply them in a consistent fashion.
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:58 PM   #58
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Re: Jesus's words on abortion

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Scot
Can someone point out what Jesus actually had to say about abortion.

I would think Jesus CHRIST would have had something to say on the matter as it's existence is such a hot topic for CHRISTians
Well, he had a lot to say about murder. And to the majority of Christians, abortion = murder.

What is unclear about that?
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Old 01-09-2006, 09:10 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Was the other cheek turned for David Irving?
No, and if Hitler personally crawled out of his dirty grave, I would also not recommend turning the other cheek.

Did I ever say I am a perfect Catholic?

:mild smile to your rhetorical perry masonity:
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Old 01-09-2006, 09:31 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


A couple of principles should be addressed here:

First, the principle of definition. Seems everyone likes to point to the “Christian Right” but there is no set definition of the group. Unlike the Catholic Church, which is clearly defined and has a recognized spokesman (the Pope), the “Christian Right” is no different than the Protestant Church. They are all different, with different statements of faith – and no clear spokesperson. Sometimes we see a definition that simply lists of issues with which a person disagrees. Far easier to point at a group of people than to discuss the various issues.

Second, who gets to assign you to a group? I’m sure many would assign me to the Christian Right (even using their own definition). Frankly, I was surprised that you declared yourself “not a liberal” when many of the positions you take would lead many to believe you are liberal. By that very principle, is it not fair for me to say “I am not part of the Christian Right (as you’ve defined it)?

Ok so .. I will just call you a conservative Christian from now on and assume that you are not part of the Christian Right - not of the Christian Right we hear of in the mass media. That ok with you?

It surprises me that it suprprised you that I´m not a liberal. I´ve stated multiple times that I use my own head. I like some positions of the liberals, but I despise the general economic liberalism those groups also stand for.. Traditionally.. was it the Tories or the Whigs who favored free trade?

Historically, free trade is a liberal idea. And I despise the arrogance liberals sometimes display.. some of them (and please, my liberal friends, do not count yourself in! this is just a general impression) seem to think they make the world go round when they´ve done nothing but contribute a few good ideas and fought for equality a century or longer ago (while lots of non-liberals did that too and lost just as many people in their fight for political freedom). The liberals are mollycoddled, just like the social democrats in Austria who were too afraid to call themselves socialists after the fall of the USSR. Well ok, American liberals are just waking up and I appreciate some of their efforts to bring Bush down.

But me? Me of all people? A wishy-washy liberal? Excuse me, but you´ll have to put me far more left on some issues, and more conservative on others

I will leave the guilt of association argument out since I don´t know when Hugo Chavez said anything anti-semitic and I´m also not the biggest fan of Hugo Chavez (just because I defended his life and his policies towards American imperialists) and third.. I got a lot of work to do, really.. what about you?
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