Jesus loves america

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Peterrrrr said:


Terrible, well so is the bible.
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How then, do you listen to a band that draws their biggest inspiration from it? I don't mean to sound rude, I'm just curious! Do you mean The Bible itself is terrible, or that many things committed in it's name or the name of God are?
 
Look, God doesn't love America. It's ok. In fact, I'm sure the nations are just a tool -- a part of the plan. Bush is a tool, and I'm sure Hilary will be a tool too.

Soon, the Christians will get over the whole God and America fantasy. Give to Ceasar what is Ceaser's!

But the day that we decide we should outlaw the Bible because it is "delusional" or what was the term used "repulsive", is the day we've lost all that is good about America.

"America is an idea, but it's an idea that brings with it some baggage, like power brings responsibility. It's an idea that brings with it equality, but equality even though it's the highest calling, is the hardest to reach. The idea that anything is possible, that's one of the reasons why I'm a fan of America."
 
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U2isthebest said:


How then, do you listen to a band that draws their biggest inspiration from it? I don't mean to sound rude, I'm just curious! Do you mean The Bible itself is terrible, or that many things committed in it's name or the name of God are?
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I don't agree with U2 in their "be LIE ves", but they still making good music.
But I think that there is so much bad things in the bible about homo,bi sexuals, women...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y

To me religion is silly, it is a way to hide from reality. It is something that people come up with thousand of years ago.

There is NO evidence for god and jesus. But there is evidence for a lot that the bible and religious people deny.
 
MadelynIris said:
Look, God doesn't love America. It's ok. In fact, I'm sure the nations are just a tool -- a part of the plan.

Soon, the Christians will get over the whole God and America fantasy.
Click to expand...

Exactly, God doesn't love nations. He loves the people in them. Considering He loves every person on earth equally, we definitely don't have special perks here in the U.S.

The massive erections some Christians get from deluding themselves into thinking we've got some kind of special blessing gives them a warm and fuzzy feeling inside, but it's not the truth. The only thing God is interested in is truth.
 
U2isthebest said:


Exactly, God doesn't love nations. He loves the people in them. Considering He loves every person on earth equally, we definitely don't have special perks here in the U.S.

The massive erections some Christians get from deluding themselves into thinking we've got some kind of special blessing gives them a warm and fuzzy feeling inside, but it's not the truth. The only thing God is interested in is truth.
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How can a thing that dosent exist love something. Give me one proof that he does exist. To say "but there is no proof that god dosnt exist" is like saying the same with Santa Claus.
As I wrote before:
"There is NO evidence for god and jesus. But there is evidence for a lot of what the bible and religious people deny"

And how do you know that the people who wrote the bible spoke to God? And if they lied, how do you know that God loves people?
 
It's the same cop out, the claim that there is an entity of absolute truth that has given mankind revealed truth (directly inspiring it, creating it, telling it to an illiterate Arabian merchant through an emmisary etc.) must either be taken literally, in which case it falls flat when matched up against reality, or be accepted to have human caused flaws, which make it worthless (for if absolute revealed truth is subjective how can it remain the absolute truth).

The morality is full of shit, the forgiveness that God gives people without consent of their victims, the punishment of people for infractions like not believing in God or their own biology. People can act in a good way without religious guidance, and when they act in a bad way it doesn't demolish any claims of moral superiority, unlike the truly faithful acting in ways to furthur their mindset; when that happens (again and again) it must be written off as (yet another) abberation from true faith. People doing evil things because they are people doesn't demand excuses like followers of "good" religion doing evil things seem to.

And the absence of evidence for specific claims matched by contrary evidence to explain a world without the need for a supernatural divine entity puts another stake through it's heart.
 
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Peterrr,

I don't think it was the Youtube Posters intent to prove that God exists or not, but to prove that those who follow or believe that God exists are 'delusional' and that the Bible is 'Repulsive'. I think that was his point.

I'm debating that by trying to clarify the message and intent of Jesus Christ, which is what I posted in your other thread, but since this thread seems to be the one you are responding to, I'll post it here again:

Lol. Ok, I'll bite.

You see, at the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics—in physical laws—every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. It's clear to me that Karma is at the very heart of the universe. I'm absolutely sure of it. And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that "as you reap, so you will sow" stuff. Grace defies reason and logic. Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I've done a lot of stupid stuff.

^ That is the beauty of Christ -- in reality (to many Christians) or in concept (to many Christians). God turned the contract upside down.

The old contract was: keep the law -- crazy stuff like sacrificing sheep, not lusting after someone in your mind, and cutting your hands off. Hmmm.. man, that's impossible!

The new contract is: Since it's clear that the law cannot be kept (were we setup by God, or did we get the concept wrong?) This never ending battle of keeping the law is wearing out us, and God (I'd presume).

Call in the new contract: In keeping with old contract symbology -- I will make one sacrifice (reversing the concept) for you. But before I do, I need to make clear what I really meant. That is, the most important law, the intent of my commandements, is for you to love one another, treat each other with respect, and to be just with each other -- by doing this, you show love and respect for me.

Some people buy into the physical realities of Jesus and the apostles, some people buy into the concepts.

I'm not going to comment on the guy in the video, other than, I think it is very, very dangerous to declare the removal of the Bible from society, and the outcast of Christians due to their state of delusion. If that were to ever happen in America, it would be a sad, sad day indeed.
Click to expand...
 
It's the same cop out, the claim that there is an entity of absolute truth that has given mankind revealed truth
Click to expand...

A_Wanderer -- Look, no one is asking you to believe any of this right? So no biggie.

You don't have to appreciate any of it, but what I do appreciate is the 180 degrees that Jesus turned on Judiasm. It was, and is still, revolutionary to the concept of "doing good" to make a superior being happy. It's a very cool concept that this 'superior being' would clarify the message (love your fellow human), which is beautiful, and one that I can definitely get behind.
 
To make a superior being happy may have been the new part but people engaging in altrusitic behavior reaches much furthur back in time and has popped up as a philosophy in populations far removed from the Middle East independently.
 
Religion threads tend to give me a headache these days, if only because they tend to devolve into this "all or nothing" attitude. That is, you have to be a fascist Christian fundamentalist or an atheist to live in this world today.

One of these days, when I have more time, I will probably write an essay on this subject for everyone's reading amusement here.
 
melon said:
Religion threads tend to give me a headache these days, if only because they tend to devolve into this "all or nothing" attitude. That is, you have to be a fascist Christian fundamentalist or an atheist to live in this world today.
Click to expand...

Agreed. This is something that I've been struggling with for a while - I was (and still am, I must admit) hesitant to speak about or even really explore my faith because of the polarization and labelling/name calling that automatically comes whenever faith and religion are discussed in public these days. Just as in politics, most people are not hard-right or hard-left, and I'm slowly learning not to let the extremes dissuade me from finding my place in it all.

Peterrrr, what was your intent for this thread? I don't really see much meaningful dialogue coming from an anti-US, anti-Christian music video.
 
U2isthebest said:


How then, do you listen to a band that draws their biggest inspiration from it? I don't mean to sound rude, I'm just curious! Do you mean The Bible itself is terrible, or that many things committed in it's name or the name of God are?
Click to expand...

I'm not peterrr but I've struggled with this, being an atheist and secular Jew. My least favorite U2 songs (besides Miami) are the most overtly religious ones that are hard to interpret in other, non-religious ways. But the band makes amazing music, has the perfect politics for me, and most of Bono's lyrics have a million brilliant interpretations. I also really like/respect that the band has said they are more "spiritual" than religious (and some of their spiritual messages that are less tied to the bible have spoken to me). And I love that Bono has spoken out against some of the stuff that bothers me most about organized religion - the manipulation of it for violence and hate. I doubt the band actually likes/believes the horrible parts of the bible that condemn homosexuality or state that women are inferior.
 
The link posted is actually a video 'Jesus loves Amerika' from "The Shamen". It's not a song I'm familiar with, and not really very representative of their music.

BTW someone has rather unsuccessfully remixed U2's Vertigo with The Shamen's Move any Mountain and this is also on Youtube:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbs_Dxhicms
 
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U2isthebest said:


How then, do you listen to a band that draws their biggest inspiration from it? I don't mean to sound rude, I'm just curious!
Click to expand...

I don't get this type of thinking. It's brought up too frequently on interference, that any religion in U2's music cannot be ignored, or implied that someone can't listen without ever even seeing/hearing religion in it in the first place. People on this site need to stop transposing their own music views onto everyone else. I can guarantee you that U2 appeal to more than the Christian component, or the generic religious component. There's some very godless people who like U2 for, wait for it, reasons which have bugger all to do with god, jesus, religion, the bible, some message from such, church, grace or karma etc!
 
Angela Harlem said:
I don't get this type of thinking. It's brought up too frequently on interference, that any religion in U2's music cannot be ignored, or implied that someone can't listen without ever even seeing/hearing religion in it in the first place. People on this site need to stop transposing their own music views onto everyone else. I can guarantee you that U2 appeal to more than the Christian component, or the generic religious component. There's some very godless people who like U2 for, wait for it, reasons which have bugger all to do with god, jesus, religion, the bible, some message from such, church, grace or karma etc!
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
financeguy said:
The link posted is actually a video 'Jesus loves Amerika' from "The Shamen".
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info.

So, I guess that means the "discussion material" is basically this:

By radio wave, and satellite
And computer print-out page
There's a brand new breed of pharacee
For the electronic age
From the land so free, home of the brave
So white they're squeaky clean
So prosperous and odious
With malignant piety
Yeah these are the men who break the right in righteous
Such hypocrisy, stupidity is truly out of sight, yes

Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither
Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither

So infiltrate, indoctrinate
Inflict their lunacy
Intolerance and ignorance
Upon humanity
May the hand of God, please cut me down
Should I sing I'm true to thee
For couragenous lies and dollar signs
Are just fascist fallacies
They offer to you salvation by the nation
Keep that money coming forth
Make heaven your destination

Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither
Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither

Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither
Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither


:der: Not exactly an enticingly substantive critique there...
 
melon said:
Religion threads tend to give me a headache these days, if only because they tend to devolve into this "all or nothing" attitude. That is, you have to be a fascist Christian fundamentalist or an atheist to live in this world today.
Click to expand...

Yeah. . . :(

melon said:
One of these days, when I have more time, I will probably write an essay on this subject for everyone's reading amusement here. .
Click to expand...

:ohmy: Oooh. But I'd love to read this! Dangit, Melon, you're always taunting us with promises like this. . .

:)
 
financeguy said:
The link posted is actually a video 'Jesus loves Amerika' from "The Shamen". It's not a song I'm familiar with, and not really very representative of their music.

BTW someone has rather unsuccessfully remixed U2's Vertigo with The Shamen's Move any Mountain and this is also on Youtube:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbs_Dxhicms
Click to expand...

It is very representative of their music. In the 80's their where a rock band, listen to their albums "Drop", wich is a totaly psycadelic rock album, inspeired by Pink Floy, 13th Floor Elevator, Simon And Garfunkel, Beatles...

Here are the album, Drop:


w w w . send space .com/file/ilj386


This song contain a prayer from Samuel Clemens(Usa)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHT3KVHfHaM

My point with this thread is to discuss the dangeruous of fundamentalists in Usa
 
Peterrrrr said:


My point with this thread is to discuss the dangeruous of fundamentalists in Usa
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Well, their are dangerous wackos all over the world of every religious stripe (and yes, even some of no religious stripe :ohmy: imagine that!). Unless you really see the fundamentalists really have a shot at taking over the country. . .okay granted with Bush's presidency these past years I could see how you could be a LITTLE concerned. . .but still, it's not like the theocrats have taken over the army and are threatening martial law or anything. . .

You're attempt to paint believers--even fundamentalist believers-- with such a dark brush would be like me trying to say that Stalin is representative of all atheists, and I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate that.
 
What's there to discuss?
Dangerous? Check
Fundamentalist? Check

Case solved.

The song? Not really.
 
I'm a practicing Catholic, but I'm a liberal one. I don't believe the stuff in the Bible about gays or women being inferior. You can't write off the whole thing just because some parts of it are objectionable. That's the way I look at it. Hell, the Episcopal Church in this country is ordaining gays. Many churches ordain women.
 
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