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Old 11-04-2007, 12:55 PM   #16
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Religion threads tend to give me a headache these days, if only because they tend to devolve into this "all or nothing" attitude. That is, you have to be a fascist Christian fundamentalist or an atheist to live in this world today.

One of these days, when I have more time, I will probably write an essay on this subject for everyone's reading amusement here.
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Old 11-04-2007, 01:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Religion threads tend to give me a headache these days, if only because they tend to devolve into this "all or nothing" attitude. That is, you have to be a fascist Christian fundamentalist or an atheist to live in this world today.
Agreed. This is something that I've been struggling with for a while - I was (and still am, I must admit) hesitant to speak about or even really explore my faith because of the polarization and labelling/name calling that automatically comes whenever faith and religion are discussed in public these days. Just as in politics, most people are not hard-right or hard-left, and I'm slowly learning not to let the extremes dissuade me from finding my place in it all.

Peterrrr, what was your intent for this thread? I don't really see much meaningful dialogue coming from an anti-US, anti-Christian music video.
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:18 PM   #18
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Originally posted by U2isthebest


How then, do you listen to a band that draws their biggest inspiration from it? I don't mean to sound rude, I'm just curious! Do you mean The Bible itself is terrible, or that many things committed in it's name or the name of God are?
I'm not peterrr but I've struggled with this, being an atheist and secular Jew. My least favorite U2 songs (besides Miami) are the most overtly religious ones that are hard to interpret in other, non-religious ways. But the band makes amazing music, has the perfect politics for me, and most of Bono's lyrics have a million brilliant interpretations. I also really like/respect that the band has said they are more "spiritual" than religious (and some of their spiritual messages that are less tied to the bible have spoken to me). And I love that Bono has spoken out against some of the stuff that bothers me most about organized religion - the manipulation of it for violence and hate. I doubt the band actually likes/believes the horrible parts of the bible that condemn homosexuality or state that women are inferior.
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:13 PM   #19
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The link posted is actually a video 'Jesus loves Amerika' from "The Shamen". It's not a song I'm familiar with, and not really very representative of their music.

BTW someone has rather unsuccessfully remixed U2's Vertigo with The Shamen's Move any Mountain and this is also on Youtube:-

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Old 11-04-2007, 05:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest


How then, do you listen to a band that draws their biggest inspiration from it? I don't mean to sound rude, I'm just curious!
I don't get this type of thinking. It's brought up too frequently on interference, that any religion in U2's music cannot be ignored, or implied that someone can't listen without ever even seeing/hearing religion in it in the first place. People on this site need to stop transposing their own music views onto everyone else. I can guarantee you that U2 appeal to more than the Christian component, or the generic religious component. There's some very godless people who like U2 for, wait for it, reasons which have bugger all to do with god, jesus, religion, the bible, some message from such, church, grace or karma etc!
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:40 PM   #21
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Originally posted by MadelynIris
Bush is a tool, and I'm sure Hilary will be a tool too."
Amen to that, sister!
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I don't get this type of thinking. It's brought up too frequently on interference, that any religion in U2's music cannot be ignored, or implied that someone can't listen without ever even seeing/hearing religion in it in the first place. People on this site need to stop transposing their own music views onto everyone else. I can guarantee you that U2 appeal to more than the Christian component, or the generic religious component. There's some very godless people who like U2 for, wait for it, reasons which have bugger all to do with god, jesus, religion, the bible, some message from such, church, grace or karma etc!
I agree.
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
The link posted is actually a video 'Jesus loves Amerika' from "The Shamen".
Thanks for the info.

So, I guess that means the "discussion material" is basically this:

By radio wave, and satellite
And computer print-out page
There's a brand new breed of pharacee
For the electronic age
From the land so free, home of the brave
So white they're squeaky clean
So prosperous and odious
With malignant piety
Yeah these are the men who break the right in righteous
Such hypocrisy, stupidity is truly out of sight, yes

Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither
Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither

So infiltrate, indoctrinate
Inflict their lunacy
Intolerance and ignorance
Upon humanity
May the hand of God, please cut me down
Should I sing I'm true to thee
For couragenous lies and dollar signs
Are just fascist fallacies
They offer to you salvation by the nation
Keep that money coming forth
Make heaven your destination

Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither
Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither

Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither
Jesus loves Amerika, but I don't love neither



Not exactly an enticingly substantive critique there...
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:49 PM   #24
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It would be more incisive if it was AmeriKKKa.
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:56 PM   #25
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Nah, I think the real gist of the thread lies in his 2nd post:

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Old 11-05-2007, 01:50 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Religion threads tend to give me a headache these days, if only because they tend to devolve into this "all or nothing" attitude. That is, you have to be a fascist Christian fundamentalist or an atheist to live in this world today.
Yeah. . .

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
One of these days, when I have more time, I will probably write an essay on this subject for everyone's reading amusement here. .
Oooh. But I'd love to read this! Dangit, Melon, you're always taunting us with promises like this. . .

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Old 11-05-2007, 04:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
The link posted is actually a video 'Jesus loves Amerika' from "The Shamen". It's not a song I'm familiar with, and not really very representative of their music.

BTW someone has rather unsuccessfully remixed U2's Vertigo with The Shamen's Move any Mountain and this is also on Youtube:-



My point with this thread is to discuss the dangeruous of fundamentalists in Usa
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:01 AM   #28
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Originally posted by Peterrrrr


My point with this thread is to discuss the dangeruous of fundamentalists in Usa
Well, their are dangerous wackos all over the world of every religious stripe (and yes, even some of no religious stripe imagine that!). Unless you really see the fundamentalists really have a shot at taking over the country. . .okay granted with Bush's presidency these past years I could see how you could be a LITTLE concerned. . .but still, it's not like the theocrats have taken over the army and are threatening martial law or anything. . .

You're attempt to paint believers--even fundamentalist believers-- with such a dark brush would be like me trying to say that Stalin is representative of all atheists, and I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate that.
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:04 AM   #29
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What's there to discuss?
Dangerous? Check
Fundamentalist? Check

Case solved.

The song? Not really.
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:40 AM   #30
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I'm a practicing Catholic, but I'm a liberal one. I don't believe the stuff in the Bible about gays or women being inferior. You can't write off the whole thing just because some parts of it are objectionable. That's the way I look at it. Hell, the Episcopal Church in this country is ordaining gays. Many churches ordain women.
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