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Old 06-26-2008, 09:49 PM   #46
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Just tested it...don't know why it doesn't work.
Because you entered a capital "o" instead of a zero. The link works now.

Is there some reason why you can't just cut and paste URLs instead of manually typing them out? That way you're guaranteed no typos.
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Old 06-26-2008, 10:30 PM   #47
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Because you entered a capital "o" instead of a zero. The link works now.

Is there some reason why you can't just cut and paste URLs instead of manually typing them out? That way you're guaranteed no typos.
I'm a dinosaur, sorry. Guess I've got to learn to do that.
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Old 06-27-2008, 01:02 AM   #48
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Heres a neat video that lots on FYM could benefit from Here Be Dragons: An Introduction to Critical Thinking

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Here Be Dragons is a free 40 minute video introduction to critical thinking. It is suitable for general audiences and is licensed for free distribution and public display. Most people fully accept paranormal and pseudoscientific claims without critique as they are promoted by the mass media. Here Be Dragons offers a toolbox for recognizing and understanding the dangers of pseudoscience, and appreciation for the reality-based benefits offered by real science. Here Be Dragons is written and presented by Brian Dunning, host and producer of the Skeptoid podcast and author of Skeptoid: Critical Analysis of Pop Phenomena, and Executive Producer of The Skeptologist
It is so very important to be critical and skeptical, especially of political groups and those that wield any power, but going out on wild tangents, gut feelings and reaffirming your initial biases by seeking out evidence that supports them is a mistake. From an outsider perspective I view 9/11 truthers as deluded and infantile, I think that they want there to be an overarching conspiracy so much that they get divorced from reality; and that discredits them further. I would take a South Park view that truthers only play into the hands of "the powers that be" (namely the large bureaucracies like the CIA and FBI that dropped the ball, out of human error and institutionally reinforced groupthink not sinister participation) there needs to be more scrutiny and accountability and that goal isn't served by accusing "the government" or orchestrating one of the mass murders it isn't responsible for. With such a vocal and contemptible lot of conspiracy loons out there at every anti-war rally who routinely crash speeches it is so very simple to dismiss well grounded criticisms that have nothing to do with fake planes, Arabs hired by Mossad or sinister puppeteers.

Why invent a conspiracy when there is mountains of human error and stupidity to criticise? When it comes to the US state apparatus you can never be so wanting for crimes that you have to invent them.

It takes more than ranting "truth to power" to be a skeptic, it demands a consistent approach to issues, reappraisal of what you think and an open mind to possibilities while retaining the capacity to discriminate bad ideas. We are all flawed, we are all prone to bias, I think that people can only benefit by learning how to think critically (that goes for political issues, health issues and religious issues).
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:17 AM   #49
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I "laugh it off" because it's laughable. Not to mention an insult to those who were murdered on that day. I choose to spend my time focusing on them and never forgetting them rather than on some half-baked conspiracy theories.
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:53 PM   #50
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I "laugh it off" because it's laughable. Not to mention an insult to those who were murdered on that day. I choose to spend my time focusing on them and never forgetting them rather than on some half-baked conspiracy theories.
Yep, it's sure laughable for William Rodriguez who lost dozens of friends and co-workers that day. I'm sure it's really laughable for the families who have come to question the events as well. And while we're at it I'm sure it's hilarious to the Firefighters who heard explosions throughout the building. Yep, just one big laugh.
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:15 PM   #51
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Who flew the planes?
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:16 PM   #52
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I "laugh it off" because it's laughable. Not to mention an insult to those who were murdered on that day. I choose to spend my time focusing on them and never forgetting them rather than on some half-baked conspiracy theories.
That's complete rubbish, I'm afraid. It is most certainly is not insulting to the victims to research these issues, and it's quite wrong of you to say that. You should do more research before posting such stupid comments.

I would assume that if you had lost someone in 9/11, you would want to get to the bottom of what happened, right? I certainly would.

It's people that want to censor debate that insult the victims, so cut the sanctimonious horseshit.
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:41 PM   #53
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^ What's your problem? Several posters in here have managed to convey that they find Harry's 'shouting' and calling other posters 'nuts' and 'lunatics' offputting without resorting to labeling his comments "stupid" or "horseshit." If you find an openly dismissive attitude towards alternative 9/11 theories objectionable, fine, but you're not likely to get anyone to reconsider anything by getting that hostile in response.
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:15 PM   #54
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^ What's your problem? Several posters in here have managed to convey that they find Harry's 'shouting' and calling other posters 'nuts' and 'lunatics' offputting without resorting to labeling his comments "stupid" or "horseshit." If you find an openly dismissive attitude towards alternative 9/11 theories objectionable, fine, but you're not likely to get anyone to reconsider anything by getting that hostile in response.
It's this forum that's out of step, not the likes of me or Harry Vest. Every other forum I contribute to or browse has had a decent, free-ranging, discussion about this issue. FYM is the only one that has not.

Excepting posters like A_Wanderer, Indra and one or two others, who at least discussed the issue in a thoughtful mannner, most of the posts in the thread did not even pretend to make a serious attempt to deal with and discuss the issues raised by Harry Vest, but rather resorted to trollish, dismissive remarks.

You didn't object to any of the trollish comments from the left wing side, but you did object to my comment - which was purely a response to Mrs Springsteen's remarks.


Shouldn't that indicate something to you, Yolland?
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Old 06-27-2008, 11:08 PM   #55
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Damn, I'm not being standoffish enough
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Old 06-28-2008, 12:13 AM   #56
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:49 AM   #57
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It's this forum that's out of step, not the likes of me or Harry Vest. Every other forum I contribute to or browse has had a decent, free-ranging, discussion about this issue. FYM is the only one that has not.
I thought this thread was considerably more constructive--it helped that the 'inside job' advocate in question obviously knew his stuff and focused on laying it out, rather than getting worked up because people failed to say "Wow great topic, thanks for posting this, nice thought-provoking links there." (He had, however, registered here solely for that purpose, as several posters surmised.)

You're correct that few in here take 'inside job' theories seriously; however, that's not my problem or concern. I'm not bothered by Harry's take on 9/11 in the slightest (nor yours, though to be fair you haven't really offered one). What I did notice was that your reply to MrsS stood out as especially hostile. Yes, virtually the whole thread is snarky, from beginning (and I mean beginning) to end; some topics just are like that. That isn't license to directly call another poster's comments "stupid" and "sanctimonious horseshit." I don't think I can really make it any clearer than that.
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Excepting posters like A_Wanderer, Indra and one or two others, who at least discussed the issue in a thoughtful mannner, most of the posts in the thread did not even pretend to make a serious attempt to deal with and discuss the issues raised by Harry Vest, but rather resorted to trollish, dismissive remarks.

You didn't object to any of the trollish comments from the left wing side, but you did object to my comment - which was purely a response to Mrs Springsteen's remarks.
Not really sure what you're getting at here...this isn't a 'left wing'/'right wing' topic at all. Harry is obviously not a 'right-winger'; 2861U2, who was as hard on him as anyone else, is clearly not 'left-wing'. In the US at least, no one sees 9/11 'inside job' theories as 'conservative,' nor disregard of them as 'liberal.' Perhaps your intent was to suggest that everyone else (including Harry) whose snarky comments in the course of the thread managed to pass my acceptability test are somehow my friends in some way that you're not? No. You were just ruder, and not at all posting in the vein of the posters you correctly identified as having offered thoughtful comments.
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Shouldn't that indicate something to you, Yolland?
That this thread has zero chance left of yielding anything constructive?

Good idea.
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