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Old 05-16-2007, 01:04 PM   #61
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Not at all. I'll go with you.
I'll bring the wine and beer!
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:26 PM   #62
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"A man dies, but the rainbow lives."
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:54 PM   #63
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I think some rather caustic comments have been made in this thread by some so called Christians.

I won't judge you but will remind you of what the Master's words say about how words and thoughts are actually things:

"But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned," (Matt. 12:36).
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:58 PM   #64
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I won't judge you

really?
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:12 PM   #65
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Originally posted by diamond
I think some rather caustic comments have been made in this thread by some so called Christians.

I won't judge you but will remind you of what the Master's words say about how words and thoughts are actually things:

"But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned," (Matt. 12:36).
Falwell judged the hell out of everyone. Did you see those remarks about NOW, the ACLU, and gays and lesbians? They were typical.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:14 PM   #66
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Originally posted by diamond
I think some rather caustic comments have been made in this thread by some so called Christians.

I won't judge you but will remind you of what the Master's words say about how words and thoughts are actually things:

"But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned," (Matt. 12:36).

diamond, I see where you're going, but I don't think you're on target. First, you keep saying you're not judging, but then you go on to make comments that suggest otherwise.

Secondly, I know some comments have been harsh toward Falwell, however, there's a difference between poor taste and criticism. I think it's OK to be upset by things he said and did. If you hold his ministry up to the example of Christ's ministry, it's hard to see a lot of similarities. Now, yes, we all fall short of God's glory, even pastors, but many, many people see Falwell as taking it to the extreme — both Christians and nonChristians. He probably started out with the right intentions, but stuff really got muddy later on. I'm guessing a lot of that came with power, influence and when he became political. He seemed to shift a lot — he'd say one thing, and apologize. This happened too often.
The other point to make is while Christ showed compassion and mercy to the common sinners he came across, he dealt with the religious leaders of the day very differently. He showed a righteous anger toward those who misrepresented God. He didn't tolerate it.

Matthew 23:2,5,6-12
"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses....But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men....And they love the place of honor at banquets, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called by men, Teacher. But do not be called Teacher; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. and do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant. And whomever exalts himself shall be humbled, and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted."

Matthew 23:15,23-25,27-28
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel about on sea and land to make one convert....Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness, but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence....Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. Even so you too outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."

John 2-14-16
"And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the moneychangers seated. And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the moneychangers, and overturned their tables; and to those who were selling the doves He said, `Take these things away; stop making My Father's house a house of merchandise.'"

Now, I know we don't have the authority that Christ has, however, I think as Christians we can be frustrated with those whom we feel, through a humble Biblical perspective, are misleading people and misrepresenting Christ. It's OK to express frustrations and enter into dialogue.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:34 PM   #67
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I would rather error on the side of compassion than righteous indigination.

If Bono could enlighten Jesse Helms and I'm sure forgive him, shouldn't we although not condoning actions of others, "let God judge between me and thee"?

I mean when an unrepented mass murderer is executed, I don't shout for glee, but only pity his lot, that's where I'm coming from.

All of us have fallen short of God's glory, needing his Grace, but in the meantime it doesn't license us to be disrespectful of another one of God's children, who had his interpretation of Christianity different from others.

Matt 7:1. Judge not, that you may not be judged.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:37 PM   #68
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Originally posted by diamond
I think some rather caustic comments have been made in this thread by some so called Christians.

Doesn't it strike you as disingenuous, if not hypocritical to be questioning people's Christianity after you just spent some 10 pages arguing that nobody should be questioning the Christianity of a Mormon?

I can't stand when anyone questions anyone else's faith. There's something ugly about it.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:49 PM   #69
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But see I never question *anybody's* Christiany who claimed to believe in Christ and asked that they do the same for me, that's all.

My point is this, and it's a very hard point to swallow when people have been despised or hated, you have to pray for those that made your life hard and forgive them. We're commaned to do this, I think even MLK would agree with this and practiced it, When you do this you win.

Also the Master reminds us about judging others:

Matt
7:2. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

These aren't my words- only the Master's.

dbs
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:50 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
I would rather error on the side of compassion than righteous indigination.

If Bono could enlighten Jesse Helms and I'm sure forgive him, shouldn't we although not condoning actions of others, "let God judge between me and thee"?

I mean when an unrepented mass murderer is executed, I don't shout for glee, but only pity his lot, that's where I'm coming from.

All of us have fallen short of God's glory, needing his Grace, but in the meantime it doesn't license us to be disrespectful of another one of God's children, who had his interpretation of Christianity different from others.

Matt 7:1. Judge not, that you may not be judged.
I'll remember this in the futrure when you start rating threads again.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:54 PM   #71
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you'll have to take the beam out of your own eye first.

dbs
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:04 PM   #72
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But see I never question *anybody's* Christiany who claimed to believe in Christ and asked that they do the same for me, that's all.

My point is this, and it's a very hard point to swallow when people have been despised or hated, you have to pray for those that made your life hard and forgive them. We're commaned to do this, I think even MLK would agree with this and practiced it, When you do this you win.

Also the Master reminds us about judging others:

Matt
7:2. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

These aren't my words- only the Master's.

dbs
You're right, but criticizing one's actions doesn't equate to judging them as a person, necessarily. It can be done with respect. Like I said, his heart may have been in the right place to begin with — maybe at other points throughout his career — who knows, I can't judge, but his actions have been questionable. Am I going to say I know where he's at now? No. That's up to God. It's OK to disagree with things he said and did though and even call them wrong. That doesn't make me a bad person or a bad Christian.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:07 PM   #73
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So we sorta kndamostly agree on this mr coemgen sir
, progress my boy.

Vey good.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:14 PM   #74
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Diamond you do understand that the biblical quotes you are using would also back up perfectly the criticisms of Falwell in this thread. You're saying it's wrong for us to judge him - that's fine and definitely right - but we're saying it was wrong for him to so strongly judge others, and in such an awful public/political way.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:14 PM   #75
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And yet another name from you.

You make me feel all warm inside when you call me by another name, diamond.



Can you please remove Smith from it though?
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