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Old 06-14-2005, 11:00 AM   #151
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A couple of the the jurors have admitted that they think he is guilty of molesting children in the past...they felt that "some things may have happened" with the child in this case but the prosecution did a poor job of proving it. They hated the mother and it sounded like some of them based their decision on her attitude on the stand.

Juror #1 felt that the maid's son was molested as was the man who is now a youth minister but he wasn't being tried for those alleged crimes so not guilty was the only option they had.

I just hope with these admissions from the jurors, any parent waiting for their chance at the Jackson gravy train thinks twice and realizes that not guilty in this case doesn't mean innocent of all wrong doing.
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Old 06-14-2005, 11:33 AM   #152
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I was watching the Late Late Show last night and the host made a joke about how the Callifornia Justice System couldn' t convict OJ, Robert Blake or Michael Jackson, so right about now Phil Spector is feeling pretty good about his chances.
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Old 06-14-2005, 04:09 PM   #153
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I know the feeling - This place gets brutal sometimes. I've left twice now...the second time, I stayed away for around a year and a half, I think.

You will be sorely missed. You are one of the most respectful people in these forums, even to people with whom you don't agree.

Personally, you've meant a good deal to me on these forums. You've defended me quite a bit, whcih is something very rare indeed, and I appreciate it.
Oh , it is just really sad when people feel that they have to leave. I'm a relative newcomer to this particular area of the forum. I mean, we're all bound to disagree strongly on many things, but disrespecting people is no way to "win" an argument. I dunno - that's my Thought For The Day.

I haven't a clue as to whether the verdict was correct; I certainly hope so. I think it's very easy for us to all sit here and judge one way or the other, and not so easy to ensure that justice is served. As for the OJ case... well, there's another can of worms. The British 'Justice' System is unbelievably up shit creek (JUSTICE, MY ARSE), so God knows what goes on in the US.

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For you to say that Michael Jackson did nothing unseemly or immoral w/this kid is the same as me saying Al Capone never murdered anybody, because Al Capone was never convicted of murder.
I never said for a second that I felt Michael Jackson had done nothing wrong. Personally, I don't believe he did what he was accused of - but of course that doesn't make it right for a man to share his bed with children and think that it is acceptable and 'normal'. I said that I thought your comment was somewhat distasteful.

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No kidding. One of my friends on LiveJournal pasted a description/signs of pedophilia, and from looking at that, and looking at Michael Jackson, you'd have to be blind not to make a connection.
Although I don't claim to be an expert on paedophilia, I know a fair bit of it from personal experience. (No, I don't mean that I'm one myself!) Whether or not your friend is a psychologist/psychiatrist, I don't think it is cut and dry at all... of course there are common signs, but not all people who show various aspects of such behaviour will be paedophiles... which is, in my opinion, a balanced view. I say that much, despite being someone who is extremely biased on the subject.

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It's that simple.
Michael is an unconvicted pepophile.

That's all.
Cases like this are very rarely "simple". That's dictated by common sense.
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Old 06-14-2005, 04:17 PM   #154
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Oh , it is just really sad when people feel that they have to leave.
It is. I don't want people to feel like they're not welcome here, or that their opinions aren't worth anything, or whatever else. I quite welcome the disagreement, it makes for some interesting discussions. Sure things can get heated, but I'm just glad to find that people still actually care about various issues. So much apathy/cynicism anymore, and that bothers me, 'cause it doesn't solve squat, I don't think. So yay for the concerned citizens.

But regardless, MrsSpringsteen has her reasons for leaving, so I say, do what you gotta do, and hopefully we'll see you around here again soon .

Angela
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Old 06-14-2005, 04:27 PM   #155
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Originally posted by corianderstem
I'd like to see parents go on trial for letting their kids stay with him.

Would YOU let your child stay with a 40-year old stranger? Just because he's famous? Seriously - what the hell is wrong with these people?
Most definitely not - couldn't agree more on that respect.

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Yes, but you have to wonder there is anyone around him who will tell him that. I get the impression that people tell him what he wants to hear. Hopefully, that will change, because it's certainly not like he'll recognize it on his own. A part of me wonders if he'll see the acquittal as proof that his behaviour was perfectly normal and okay.
Well, this is true... where has all the help he needed been for the past 20/30 years?
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Old 06-15-2005, 05:38 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by sallycinnamon78


but not all people who show various aspects of such behaviour will be paedophiles... which is, in my opinion, a balanced view. I say that much, despite being someone who is extremely biased on the subject.



Cases like this are very rarely "simple". That's dictated by common sense.
The majority of Americans do not think MJ is an exception in this case.
There wasn't enough evidence to convict that's all and it is pretty simple here.

In California they have a hard time prosecuting celeberties, I hope we can agree on that one, that's another simple one.


db9
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Old 06-15-2005, 05:41 AM   #157
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Originally posted by diamond



In California they have a hard time prosecuting celeberties, I hope we can agree on that one, that's another simple one.


db9
i agree.
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Old 06-15-2005, 05:44 AM   #158
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Originally posted by diamond
In California they have a hard time prosecuting celeberties, I hope we can agree on that one, that's another simple one.


db9
Phil Spector's is the next celebrity trial coming up. It will be interesting to see how that one goes.
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Old 06-15-2005, 10:17 AM   #159
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Oh, hell, another celebrity trial.
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Old 06-15-2005, 03:40 PM   #160
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Old 06-15-2005, 11:35 PM   #161
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I don't know if this has been posted before or not (couldn't find it via the site search engine). It's ny John Karrys, who is, apparently, an English teacher, former prosecutor, and a professor at Loyola Law School. I don't know much about this guy so if anyone else does, let me know. If he isn't some 'screeching biased lunatic ', and even if he is, it's interesting...


http://www.cjbrief.com/webextras6.htm
“At this point, the case is looking like a smear campaign. It’s a legal free-for-all.”

Former Prosecutor, Laurie Levenson, Loyola Law School Professor

Michael JacksonThe anointed media “experts could not have imagined, even in the worst of possible scenarios, that District Attorney Tom Sneddon’s case would sink into this quagmire of libellous quicksand. If this isn’t a smear campaign, then where are the legions of outraged, child-abuse moral advocates crying out for a public hanging? Were this a legitimate and plausible, circumstantial case, wouldn’t one think that the media would have at least that to advertise? Something doesn’t seem right with this disturbing snapshot. History has showcased to us, on too many occasions, the consequences where the partnership between state and media is blatantly obvious. It’s time for all of us to step out of our fantasy bubbles and acknowledge, at this moment in history, our civic institutions are at a dangerous precipice. The graveyards are rumbling with warning sirens from our ancestors who suffered mercilessly under such partnerships.

The ad homonym attacks against Michael Jackson and anyone who dares to support him have intensified as establishment media shifts its tactics to save face and restore its crumbling credibility. Let us not forget that America is a nation born out of its distrust of the absolute power of the State, as well as the interference of the State in the lives of private citizens. If we are living in a society where cases such as this are being tried, with these poorly coached witnesses, then let us confess that we do not have any real educational standards. We have neither the moral base to assert legal standards, nor do we have the common, decent values to dialogue about morality.

Are we to believe that this kind of conduct is acceptable in our courts? Is this something to take pride in? Is this what we salute to? What Grand Jury testimony or evidence rationally convinced Judge Melville that this was adequate enough to warrant a trial? Where is the accountability?

It is a façade, and no law professor can dare to rationalize otherwise. Yet, the media have rationalized, haven’t they? Witness after witness, the media bronzes into headlines carefully coached slogans or statements, yet, leaves out the context and trivializes the impact of the contradictions. Anyone who studies some history be it political, economic or legal, would not be surprised to find out that this selective historiography is a common occurrence.

Does anyone think that journalists report exactly what they see without bias, concision, or exclusion? Most Americans don’t, and most scholars have confirmed that. The rampant censorship disguised as political correctness across University campuses was bound to filter into institutional mass media. Is it because Michael Jackson asserted his right not to be a typical icon that enrages so many? Chose not to be that stereotypical idol that has been marketed to us as cool and has branded our psyche. Michael Jackson has chosen to be self-made rather than be manufactured. He certainly doesn’t solicit public opinion to define who he is. Does he?

Reading the headlines alone would make one think that Tom Sneddon has a strong case, along with credible witnesses and damaging testimony. The reality is that there is no timetable for these alleged molestations and we have a bunch of key witnesses who are strapped for cash and have every reason to be lured into suddenly remembering new testimony. How I wish there were an agency, not unlike the Consumer Protection Agency, for journalists and pundits. There, a viewer or a reader could check a credibility rating and compare the lying averages. Now would be a good time to set that up.
Let’s make one thing clear: the free-marketplace of ideas is a battleground for control over the spheres of influence of the mind. Just like we expect a juror to deliberate through a logical process when rendering a verdict, everyone needs to learn how to manage information and take into account a narrator’s biases, agendas and vendettas. It is a war and the consequences are as fatal. You think Michael Jackson is guilty? Examine the nature of that claim. Are the sources credible? Is their even quasi-circumstantial evidence to convict him in a court of law? Think of how easily a jealous or vindictive person could implicate you using the same standard you think is “fair game” by which judge to Michael. Is this a standard you can live with?

The grave consequences being showcased to the world are much bigger than Michael Jackson. Whether one likes him or not, at this point in the trial, is irrelevant. To look the other way at this Jacobin version of justice clearly highlights that institutional journalists are successfully doing their job in nurturing ignorance and managing opinions.

In America, are the real prosecutors, law professors and journalists ready to step forward and bring to justice those who have maliciously molested the constitution and have perverted their duties as officers of the law? This is the new frontier.


John Karrys
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Old 06-17-2005, 06:13 AM   #162
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that ia a bunch of crap.

in america we worship celeberties.
for a long time we have put up w this celeberty's oddities.

only after a 10 yr reign of spin from this celeberty did as americans get tired of the spin.

tired of the spin so much that we hoped even on flimsy evidence w damaged goods as witnesses that there would be a conviction.

well this celeberty thought out his crimes after getting caught the first time..and there was no conviction.

the same way america didn't want OJ to be guilty..the majority of americans now realize OJ did it.

question, ms sally do do think OJ did it or was framed?

db9
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Old 06-17-2005, 06:27 AM   #163
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Michael Jackson is certainly guilty of strange deeds, but the question is, are they illegal? It was inexcusable and stupid the way he dangled his baby off of a balcony, but was this illegal? Apparently not or he would have been arrested on the spot. OJ pretty clearly killed someone. Did MJ? No. I'm not saying MJ is a good person. He's got too many problems, and is too damned egotistical to want to work on them. The issue is legality, not morality.
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Old 06-17-2005, 04:23 PM   #164
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verte
and sally-


i think u r both gullible, but love u like sisters.

db9
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