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Old 04-18-2008, 08:08 PM   #46
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
This is how neo-cons paint themselves in a corner.
He isn't a neocon. They generally have a better pedigree, and are mostly secular in their arguments. We just have an old-fashioned social conservative here.

Social conservatives are generally ones who want the state to limit the rights of "other people," if it fits their view of the world, but then wants "the government" to leave them alone and not restrict their right to do anything whatsoever.

What they will never learn is that they can't have it both ways.
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:14 PM   #47
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Wow. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. I agree with the vets.

"there needs to be a real effort along the lines of World War II to combat global warming and climate change"..... WHAT?



I agree.

I have read this thread a couple times and its amazing how you seem to be the only sceptic.

What's wrong with you?

Why do you refuse to swim with the crowd?


Propaganda is easy to salute.
Truth needs a thinking person and a shovel to toss out the lies.


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Old 04-18-2008, 11:37 PM   #48
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Originally posted by melon


He isn't a neocon. They generally have a better pedigree, and are mostly secular in their arguments. We just have an old-fashioned social conservative here.

Social conservatives are generally ones who want the state to limit the rights of "other people," if it fits their view of the world, but then wants "the government" to leave them alone and not restrict their right to do anything whatsoever.

What they will never learn is that they can't have it both ways.
Neither of which has anything got to do with genuine conservatism....granted, it is partly the fault of 'genuine' conservatives that the name of conservatism has been debauched, disgraced, and dragged through the mud by a combination of imperialist neo-cons and bigoted theo-cons.
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Old 04-19-2008, 12:21 AM   #49
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Originally posted by the iron horse
I agree.

I have read this thread a couple times and its amazing how you seem to be the only sceptic.

What's wrong with you?

Why do you refuse to swim with the crowd?


Propaganda is easy to salute.
Truth needs a thinking person and a shovel to toss out the lies.


Teenagers are rebellious for rebellion's sake. Maturity involves being rebellious for substantive reasons.

The irony of all of this is that 2861U2 is angry that global warming is considered more important than the War on Terror. Yet many neoconservatives, who more than support the War on Terror, are also quite supportive of the "solutions for global warming." That's not because they've embraced environmentalism; it's because the solutions offered to end global warming are coincidentally also solutions that would give the U.S. energy independence and freedom from oil. That means, without the Middle East holding the black crack over our heads, we can finally be free of these unsavory, undemocratic, and downright oppressive nations. We can then have more of an upper hand in diplomacy too. Right now? We most certainly cannot confront Saudi Arabia, for instance, because we are extremely dependent on their oil and have been for decades.

The solutions to the War on Terror and global warming are inextricably tied together.

Now how's that for "rebellion"?
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Old 04-19-2008, 12:23 AM   #50
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Originally posted by financeguy
Neither of which has anything got to do with genuine conservatism....granted, it is partly the fault of 'genuine' conservatives that the name of conservatism has been debauched, disgraced, and dragged through the mud by a combination of imperialist neo-cons and bigoted theo-cons.
I've pretty much surmised that "global conservatism" is about as murky and meaningless as "global liberalism" is.

Talk about relativistically-defined terms!
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Old 04-19-2008, 12:51 AM   #51
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Originally posted by melon


Teenagers are rebellious for rebellion's sake. Maturity involves being rebellious for substantive reasons.
So are you saying that there can't possibly be any young, global warming skeptics who have done research and made up their own minds? Are you saying that anyone like me is just being rebellious and refusing to accept almighty science?

Let me tell you about my life, and maybe you'll change your perception of teenagers (which I no longer am, by the way- I'm 20 ): I'm a Christian, a conservative, I don't drink, do drugs, smoke, or use foul language. You still feel I'm "rebellious?"

Do you think anyone who differs in opinion from you is just "rebellious" or stupid? I sure hope not. I have done plenty of research and thinking for myself which have led me to take on all of the above attributes which I hold dear, and I can give you darn good reasons.

Maturity involves thinking for yourself, and not just conforming for conforming's sake.
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Old 04-19-2008, 12:53 AM   #52
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i still am waitnf for your to post yor peer reviewred resaerch articles that you find so convicneing
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:26 AM   #53
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Originally posted by unico
i still am waitnf for your to post yor peer reviewred resaerch articles that you find so convicneing
Were all those grammatical errors intentional?


I'm tired and I'm going to bed, so I'll post all that stuff later. Let me just say that all of us should be skeptical of science. Science once told us the earth was flat and the earth was the center of the universe and that Pluto was a planet, and if you disagreed with any of this you were some kind of wacko. Not to mention that we seem to be going through "scares" of global warming and cooling every few decades, and the science is far from conclusive. So why do you guys find it so disgusting and unbelievable that there are global warming skeptics in existence? This "issue" has demonstrated brilliantly that liberals do not believe in personal liberty, and that they do not celebrate the open and free expression of differing opinions. Liberals strive for everyone to conform and not question science and want everything to be absolutely perfect.
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:59 AM   #54
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Originally posted by 2861U2
This "issue" has demonstrated brilliantly that liberals do not believe in personal liberty, and that they do not celebrate the open and free expression of differing opinions. Liberals strive for everyone to conform and not question science and want everything to be absolutely perfect.
That's full of crap, and you know it.

"Freedom of speech" is a two-way street.

1) You have your right to say whatever you want, no matter how ridiculous it might seem.

But...and here's the unexpected twist...

2) We have the right to say whatever we want in rebuttal, up to and including calling it crap.

It does not mean the right to have unchallenged opinions.

Isn't free speech grand?
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:14 AM   #55
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Originally posted by 2861U2
So are you saying that there can't possibly be any young, global warming skeptics who have done research and made up their own minds? Are you saying that anyone like me is just being rebellious and refusing to accept almighty science?
There's only one way to find out, and that's to post your sources to be open for scrutiny.

Quote:
Let me tell you about my life, and maybe you'll change your perception of teenagers (which I no longer am, by the way- I'm 20 ): I'm a Christian, a conservative, I don't drink, do drugs, smoke, or use foul language. You still feel I'm "rebellious?"
Yes, they call it "Straight Edge."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edge

It's the counter-counterculture!

Don't worry. As a teenager, I was all those things, except politically conservative. I'm still not politically conservative today; just what I'd consider "less liberal."
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:59 AM   #56
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Wow. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. I agree with the vets.

"there needs to be a real effort along the lines of World War II to combat global warming and climate change"..... WHAT?

Have you read "Flags of our Fathers"?

You do know that the famous Iwo Jima photo was staged , right, and that the photo was used as a propaganda tool to drum up money for bond drives.

Seems like a whole lot of fuss over not much.

As for "thinking for yourself" and whatnot, you've shown very little evidence of that. You seem like a smart guy and all but you seem to be totally in the thrall of an ideology that's been fed to you.
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:16 AM   #57
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Originally posted by melon


There's only one way to find out, and that's to post your sources to be open for scrutiny.

I will. Give me a couple days, though. I'm home from school this weekend, and I have a ton of things to do. I'd rather not spend the entire weekend at the computer responding to however many people.
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:11 AM   #58
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Let me just say that all of us should be skeptical of science. Science once told us the earth was flat and the earth was the center of the universe
And when those beliefs were challenged, the scientists who challenged them were persecuted by the Church, weren't they? Isn't it funny that your two examples were from centuries ago, and involve the Church maintaining those "scientific" beliefs? I bet you love science when you go to the health clinic on campus and get medicine to make you well.





Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
This "issue" has demonstrated brilliantly that liberals do not believe in personal liberty, and that they do not celebrate the open and free expression of differing opinions.
Says the guy who thinks our present government, the one restricting free speech and other Constitutional rights, is the greatest thing since sliced bread. You really do know how to make a girl laugh.


Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
Liberals strive for everyone to conform and not question science and want everything to be absolutely perfect.
Do your college papers include such amazing generalizations? Does your "research"?
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:22 AM   #59
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Were all those grammatical errors intentional?


I'm tired and I'm going to bed, so I'll post all that stuff later. Let me just say that all of us should be skeptical of science. Science once told us the earth was flat and the earth was the center of the universe and that Pluto was a planet, and if you disagreed with any of this you were some kind of wacko. Not to mention that we seem to be going through "scares" of global warming and cooling every few decades, and the science is far from conclusive. So why do you guys find it so disgusting and unbelievable that there are global warming skeptics in existence? This "issue" has demonstrated brilliantly that liberals do not believe in personal liberty, and that they do not celebrate the open and free expression of differing opinions. Liberals strive for everyone to conform and not question science and want everything to be absolutely perfect.
No, it was not. Moving on...

I think your last part here shows just how much you've polarized this into a partisan issue. Science itself is based on questioning and testing. There are laws, then theories, and so on. You remain steadfast in a text that was put together by man, yet science pokes at all corners of the world to uncover more about it. It's a shame you have no faith in it. Science can save you or a loved one when you're ill. Science has led you to become more dependent on technology (I know this because you have said you are in university, where constant computer communication is a daily way of life.) It sounds to me like you're cherry-picking here.

And I don't know what "inconclusive" reports you are talking about. Everything that I've read that has been peer reviewed and published in legitimate journals has said the same. The only contrary opinions I have seen myself are from blogs, which are about as reliable as Wikipedia. Anyone can post anything on the web. Real stuff (in any field, not just science but for many liberal arts too) is often theory based and reviewed by other experts. So I do want to see these articles when you post them. If you've found them more convincing than others than I want to see their sources myself.
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:34 AM   #60
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Outrageous.
I just spit out my water. So nice for Lynne Cheney to be all PC and shit. She's got both boys and girls; she's got an African-American kid, an Asian-American kid, and a Hispanic kid. She's even got a redhead. I feel so honored.

On-topic: The Time Cover
Yes, the job of the media is to inform, but sometimes it has to shock, titillate and grab our attention to bring light to different issues. If there was just a tree on the cover, it would be very ho-hum; but this cover is a bold statement. And yes, I understand that many people are going to be upset. I've been upset by a lot of visual images I've seen in the media too.

But regarding global warming. I used to write copy for a website that discussed environmental issues. I learned so much. What is the big deal some conservatives have about caring about the environment? Do you have your own air to breathe? Do you have your own water to drink, bathe and cook with? Even some right-wing Christians are opening their minds to saving the environment. I was watching the TV program "Now" and it featured a segment about Evangelical Christians getting more involved in environmental causes. Many of them live in rural communities so they see first hand how harmful environmental practices and policies mess up their hometowns. One woman called the earth "God's body." I thought that was a lovely way of putting it.
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