knox
Refugee
all_i_want said:
Taken by doing things like voting for your leaders?
Freedom will be taken by oppressed peoples when offered, and will fight for it when not. We've seen this over and over again in history, especially over the last two centuries. I think that Bush's description of freedom as a fire that burns in the minds of men (I'd prefer "souls of men", but it's the same idea) is a very good one. A lot of people who have opposed the ongoing war in Iraq have taken the tack that the coalition "imposting freedom" or "imposing democracy", which is absurd, because the only people who oppose such things are simply fearful of losing their power.
I'd also like to weigh in on the ongoing discussion of the Cold War. I think it is a mistake to judge the actions of the USA during the Cold War based upon the reality of today's world. It was important for the security of the United States, and indeed the free world by extension, to minimize Soviet influence around the world and on its doorstep in particular. Of course this creates problems wherin you are forced to despose leaders who have garnered popular support: this was an unfortunate reality of the Cold War, and I can only hope that the people whom my country did this to can forgive us, and understand why it was necessary. They can surely appreciate the consequences of an unchecked USSR to the world.
But that era is over, and is history. The choices that were made have consequences that must be dealt with, but they were the right choices for the time. Now we are dealing with those consequences in the world. One way we can do that is by encouraging the flourishing of democratic nations: they come with free elections, accountability in government, freedom of speech and religion, and a free and independent press. And democracy is indeed succeeding. The past few months have been incredible as far as this goes: the free world opposed Russian-backed corruption in Ukraine, the formerly oppressed people of Iraq have defied the religious fanatics to go to the polls. In fact, as we furiously debate the direction of the world, the people of Lebanon have united to win their country back from the Syrian occupancy, which has been in place since before the collapse of the USSR.
You know what? George Bush gets it. He understands exactly what he's doing. Frankly, I'm not sure that he understood it in 2001, when we saw what happens when you let repressive governments blame all of their problems on the west. I'm not sure that he understood it in 2002, when we began wondering what Saddam would do with the weapons we thought he had. I'm not sure that he understood it in 2003, when he launched an invasion to remove a regime that at best was a source of financial aid and comfort for terrorists, and at worst was the future launching point for the third atomic attack in history. But he sure as hell gets it now:
If you haven't read or seen his speech from his inauguration, I'd encourage you to do so. Here is a link.
And yes, the USA will intervene where appropriate. We will demand that stolen electoins be returned. We will stand up against the thugs and tyrants of the world. We will even put brave young men and women in harm's way to secure freedom for people who want it. This is nothing new for the USA, after fighting for freedom in both World Wars, in Korea, in Vietnam, in Afghanistan, and now in Iraq. We've gotten lost along the way before, that isn't a reason for us to stop: it is a reason for us to continue, to right any past wrongs. We might not have known that we were doing it at first, but it's hard to argue that the USA isn't fighting on the side of freedom in Iraq, and indeed the world.
of course he denounced it! did he have a choice? could he just say 'yeah that was awesome' or just ignore the whole thing until it goes away? that was the only feasible political course of action he could have taken and he took it. the fact that he denounced these crimes does not mean his administration is not responsible. since some people (im looking in your direction, mr rumsfeld) think torture is ok as long as the prisoner have information you want (duh!) ill take any apologies from this administration with a spoonful of salt. im sure someone in the administration knew what was going on, and the only thing they could do when it came out was to claim innocence and denounce these actions.
