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Old 07-08-2006, 04:45 PM   #16
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Well, just to be serious for a moment.
In his letters to the Corinthians, Paul describes many gifts which God gives to members of the church. This gift may be wisdom, knowledge, faith, ability to heal others, ability to perform miracles, discernings of spirits, speaking in tongues, or interpretation of the words of a person speaking in tongues and prophecy. So someday, through the Holy Spirit, couldn't some prophet actually know "the date and the hour."
Would he be believed?
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Old 07-08-2006, 04:57 PM   #17
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So someday, through the Holy Spirit, couldn't some prophet actually know "the date and the hour."
Jesus says that only the Father knows. The Holy Spirit doesn't know.
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Old 07-09-2006, 01:46 AM   #18
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Originally posted by INDY500
Well, just to be serious for a moment.
In his letters to the Corinthians, Paul describes many gifts which God gives to members of the church. This gift may be wisdom, knowledge, faith, ability to heal others, ability to perform miracles, discernings of spirits, speaking in tongues, or interpretation of the words of a person speaking in tongues and prophecy. So someday, through the Holy Spirit, couldn't some prophet actually know "the date and the hour."
Would he be believed?
Mmmmm. . . .I don't think so. Jesus seemed to make it clear that it would be a "surprise." There are signs, so that believers recognize when it's getting close, but I think he made a point of saying a date wouldn't ever be given.

To be honest, I don't really understand why a date would matter any way. The best place those of us who believe in "the end" coming at some point, is to always believe it can be very soon. Not so we can run to the hills and stockpile, but because let's face it, we really don't know if it's going to be over for us, individually, in the next five minutes, five days, or five years. What we do know is that, barring serious medical advances, at the most, "the end of the world" for me and probably most of you will happen sometime around 2076 if not sooner.

So we've got 70 years. Maybe.

I don't think "the end" should be about fear, at least if you believe that God has a happy ending for you (i.e. you are "saved" in Christian terminology). In my church we have this song we sing at the end of every church service called "We Have This Hope". It's about hope in the coming of the Lord, which is exactly what we should have. Hope not fear.

Of course, those who are setting dates are generally trying to scare people, which I think is deplorable.
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Old 07-09-2006, 11:18 AM   #19
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There are signs, so that believers recognize when it's getting close, but I think he made a point of saying a date wouldn't ever be given.
And, yet, these are "signs" that are so generic as to be practially meaningless.

I do think it should be noted that the Gospels and the Book of Revelation are completely unrelated texts. In fact, even as the NT canon was sealed in the 4th century A.D., the church fathers strongly questioned whether such a book was divinely inspired. I think they found themselves questioning whether such a book had a place in the Bible to begin with; but, obviously, they erred on the side of inclusion.

I think fear of progress plays into why a lot of Christians believe that the end is always in their lifetime, but who knows. Maybe the year 3006 will make people look back nostalgically on the "good old days" of 2006. Or, maybe, they'll laugh at how primitive we were.

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Old 07-09-2006, 12:24 PM   #20
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Revelation is dated about 60 years after Jesus died. Here is a basic rundown on what Christians are advocating and can hence look forward to.
http://www.goldnuggetwebs.com/revelation/index.html
So after reading this, what do people think of the Book of Revelation? (this is God's word according to Christians, John was inspired by God.)
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Old 07-09-2006, 12:25 PM   #21
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And, yet, these are "signs" that are so generic as to be practially meaningless.

Which is, I think, kind of the point Jesus was making. (I'm referring to Christ's statements, not Revelation). You always have to be ready, because the end will come when you least expect it.

Again, I include our individual end of life in thinking about "the end" not just a broader "apocalypse". When we look at the end of the individual you can be certain that will be both relatively soon, and quite possibly totally unexpected.

But we don't like to think about that.
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Old 07-09-2006, 05:51 PM   #22
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Only the Lord knows the date.
i bet the lord shown you his new garden tools and invited you to his BBQ also

There is only one person in this universe that matters and thats you.
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Old 07-09-2006, 08:47 PM   #23
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There is only one person in this universe that matters and thats you.
Well that's certainly the message trumpeted in today's advertising and popular culture. And I'm embarrassed to admit my attitude as well for too much of my life.
I'm currently on chapter/day 39 of 40 in Rick Warren's THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE. Interestingly, the book opens with this buzzkill;
(page 1, line 1)

It's not about you.

Anyway, I hope you find what you're looking for.
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Old 07-09-2006, 08:53 PM   #24
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He's just speaking like a typical 17 year old, there's a lot of growing up at that age.
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Old 07-09-2006, 09:38 PM   #25
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
He's just speaking like a typical 17 year old, there's a lot of growing up at that age.
we all have the power to change the course of our lives.



My grandad is a firm believer in the power within ourselves. Dont tell me he has a lot of growing up to do at his age.

typical middle aged fart.

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Old 07-09-2006, 09:47 PM   #26
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My grandad is a firm believer in the power within ourselves. Dont tell me he has a lot of growing up to do at his age.

There's a big difference in believing in the power within ourselves...

And this:
Quote:
There is only one person in this universe that matters and thats you.
If your grandfather lived under a philosophy that he was the only person that mattered in this universe, you wouldn't be around.
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Old 07-09-2006, 09:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


There's a big difference in believing in the power within ourselves...

And this:


If your grandfather lived under a philosophy that he was the only person that mattered in this universe, you wouldn't be around.
By that my grandad means , he does not believe in a heigher being such as a god who creates his destiny nor does this god have the power to change anything.

its like people believing in the toothfairy really lol.
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Old 07-09-2006, 10:02 PM   #28
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By that my grandad means , he does not believe in a heigher being such as a god who creates his destiny nor does this god have the power to change anything.
I understand. That's just not what you said the first time.


Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02

its like people believing in the toothfairy really lol.
BUT, some may see your beliefs as being arrogant.
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Old 07-09-2006, 10:06 PM   #29
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I understand. That's just not what you said the first time.




BUT, some may see your beliefs as being arrogant.
some may see your beliefs as naive or gullible.
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Old 07-09-2006, 10:08 PM   #30
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am i the only who thinks out there in the universe is a huge alien with longs worm like arms and a massive brain who goes by the name of a word so long we can not process and a language so complexed we can not hear , in a planet so far away we can not dream.
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