It's Official - America has gone to HELL

[deep]

Agents' visit chills UMass Dartmouth senior

By AARON NICODEMUS, Standard-Times staff writer

NEW BEDFORD -- A senior at UMass Dartmouth was visited by federal agents two months ago, after he requested a copy of Mao Tse-Tung's tome on Communism called "The Little Red Book."
Two history professors at UMass Dartmouth, Brian Glyn Williams and Robert Pontbriand, said the student told them he requested the book through the UMass Dartmouth library's interlibrary loan program.
The student, who was completing a research paper on Communism for Professor Pontbriand's class on fascism and totalitarianism, filled out a form for the request, leaving his name, address, phone number and Social Security number. He was later visited at his parents' home in New Bedford by two agents of the Department of Homeland Security, the professors said.
The professors said the student was told by the agents that the book is on a "watch list," and that his background, which included significant time abroad, triggered them to investigate the student further.
"I tell my students to go to the direct source, and so he asked for the official Peking version of the book," Professor Pontbriand said. "Apparently, the Department of Homeland Security is monitoring inter-library loans, because that's what triggered the visit, as I understand it."
Although The Standard-Times knows the name of the student, he is not coming forward because he fears repercussions should his name become public. He has not spoken to The Standard-Times.
The professors had been asked to comment on a report that President Bush had authorized the National Security Agency to spy on as many as 500 people at any given time since 2002 in this country.
The eavesdropping was apparently done without warrants.
The Little Red Book, is a collection of quotations and speech excerpts from Chinese leader Mao Tse-Tung.
In the 1950s and '60s, during the Cultural Revolution in China, it was required reading. Although there are abridged versions available, the student asked for a version translated directly from the original book.
The student told Professor Pontbriand and Dr. Williams that the Homeland Security agents told him the book was on a "watch list." They brought the book with them, but did not leave it with the student, the professors said.
Dr. Williams said in his research, he regularly contacts people in Afghanistan, Chechnya and other Muslim hot spots, and suspects that some of his calls are monitored.
"My instinct is that there is a lot more monitoring than we think," he said.
Dr. Williams said he had been planning to offer a course on terrorism next semester, but is reconsidering, because it might put his students at risk.
"I shudder to think of all the students I've had monitoring al-Qaeda Web sites, what the government must think of that," he said. "Mao Tse-Tung is completely harmless."

they can not get Bin Laden???

But they got time and tax payer money for this shit?

We have nut bags running this country.

 

[AvsGirl41]

I wondered if I was being watched last semester when I did a course in Islam, and did a huge research paper on Chechen terrorism. I've checked out so many books on Trotsky, Lenin and Stalin that it's not funny. But I didn't request any books through inter-library so maybe I flew under the radar. I kept joking they'll knock on my door, and my friends said "They don't knock."

You've said it--I cannot believe THIS is what Homeland Security spends its time on.

 

[Kieran McConville]

All dissent must be crushed guys. I personally do my reading IN the library wherever possible, thus avoiding the messy business of crossing its boundaries.

 

[hiphop]

Huh... that could be me. background which included significant time abroad.

Good to not live in America. suits knocking on my door and asking questions, reminds me of the SS.

 

[melon]

We have nut bags running this country.

That pretty much goes without saying. We've got nuts chasing after fanatics.

Melon

 

[sharky]

I'm sorry but why is the Dept. of Homeland Security worried about a book about Communism? Last time I checked, the Cold War was pretty much over in the early '90s, the biggest threat to our country is not a Communist but an Islamic extremist, Cuba isn't even close to be a threat to us anymore and the largest Communist country in the world is the largest importer of goods to the U.S. Am I missing something?

There's a button that I keep meaning to get for my back pack that says "A banned book is a book worth reading." How true.

 

[BluRmGrl]

Sad.....

 

[Se7en]

we've got to protect our freedom by limiting our freedom. it makes sense to me, guys. freedom. did i mention our freedom and how the terrorists hate it? freedom.

 

[LadyRhia]

"The burning of an author’s books, imprisonment for opinion’s sake, has always been the tribute that an ignorant age pays to the genius of its time."

 

[U2democrat]

I read and did research on the Communist Manifesto this summer...I wonder if they'll be after me soon

 

[BVS]

Re: Re: It's Official - America has gone to HELL

We've got nuts chasing after fanatics.

Perfect description of this administration.

I hope his supporters are proud.

 

[anitram]

And every once in a while you will get a post on this forum by somebody saying they'd rather live in America than anywhere else, because you've got the most freedom in the world.

If that's freedom, I rather enjoy my occupation here in Canada.

 

[anitram]

According to recent press reports, Pentagon officials have been spying on what they call "suspicious" meetings by civilian groups, including student groups opposed to the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" ban on lesbian, gay and bisexual military personnel. The story, first reported by Lisa Myers and NBC News last week, noted that Pentagon investigators had records pertaining to April protests at the State University of New York at Albany and William Patterson College in New Jersey. A February protest at NYU was also listed, along with the law school's LGBT advocacy group OUTlaw, which was classified as "possibly violent" by the Pentagon. A UC-Santa Cruz "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" protest, which included a gay kiss-in, was labeled as a "credible threat" of terrorism.

 

[verte76]

I'm wondering if I'm going to get a visit from the friendly local officers because I'm researching Islam. This includes meeting some local Muslims. Are *we* going to get visits? This scares the out of me.

 

[randhail]

I'm just suprised someone from UMass-Dartmouth read a book. Knowing a bunch of people that went there and what they're like, I would call it a minor miracle.

 

[VertigoGal]

That's unfortunate. I hope this and the eavesdropping reports aren't just forgotten and brushed aside.

 

[nbcrusader]

Let's take a look at the possible responses to the initial post. We can:

1) cry out against the unreasonable steps our government is taking (and toss in a bit of hyperbole for flavor).

2) agree fully with the government action (possibly a bannable offense for FYM).

3) suggest a modified list of factors that would trigger an appropriate investigation.

After all, there are some patterns of behavior which warrant investigation (as we'd like to catch the cells before the next attack). The question is really: is this an isolated incident (where a combination of factors triggered an investigation, even though a separate analysis of the factors would not warrant an investigation), or is it part of a larger investigatory scheme?

 

[stammer476]

After all, there are some patterns of behavior which warrant investigation (as we'd like to catch the cells before the next attack). The question is really: is this an isolated incident (where a combination of factors triggered an investigation, even though a separate analysis of the factors would not warrant an investigation), or is it part of a larger investigatory scheme?

Excellent point. As much as some of us would like to believe it, the current administration is not "idiotic." You simply can't reach that level of power being stupid. It's a nice caricature to throw stones at, but it's hardly accurate.

And since it's silly to snoop around about a student searching for communist materials, I think the more logical conclusion is that there's more to this story than we know.

 

[BVS]

Let's take a look at the possible responses to the initial post. We can:

1) cry out against the unreasonable steps our government is taking (and toss in a bit of hyperbole for flavor).

2) agree fully with the government action (possibly a bannable offense for FYM).

3) suggest a modified list of factors that would trigger an appropriate investigation.

After all, there are some patterns of behavior which warrant investigation (as we'd like to catch the cells before the next attack). The question is really: is this an isolated incident (where a combination of factors triggered an investigation, even though a separate analysis of the factors would not warrant an investigation), or is it part of a larger investigatory scheme?

Or we could ask our Homeland Security to use logic and common sense when protecting this country instead of wasting our tax dollars.

Let's see;

an independent agency established by and accountable to the President in 2001; develops and implements a national strategy to make the United States safe from terrorist threats or attacks

Yet they are going after someone who checked out a book on communism, I wasn't aware the commies were a terrorist threat. Must be some new intelligence we have that the fundamentalist are converting.

Let's also take into consideration that this is a student checking out a book from a university library. Hmmm, I wonder if he could possibly be writing a paper.

But somehow our amazing protectors are going after students who check out books from universities which subject matter is about a non-threat. I for one feel much safer.

is this an isolated incident

Well given some other threads here in FYM this isn't an isolated incident.

 

[indra]

Excellent point. As much as some of us would like to believe it, the current administration is not "idiotic." You simply can't reach that level of power being stupid. It's a nice caricature to throw stones at, but it's hardly accurate.

And since it's silly to snoop around about a student searching for communist materials, I think the more logical conclusion is that there's more to this story than we know.

Ah yes. This is what's known as "the government is never wrong" viewpoint.



(oh yeah. And also a variation of the "it's for your own good" argument.)

 

[Irvine511]

2) agree fully with the government action (possibly a bannable offense for FYM).

i fully understand where you're coming from, and you're making some points -- that, had i time, i'd debate -- but the continuous slamming of the forum in your posts really isn't necessary.

 

[stammer476]

Ah yes. This is what's known as "the government is never wrong" viewpoint.



(oh yeah. And also a variation of the "it's for your own good" argument.)

Actually, that's not at all what I was saying.

I'm just trying to differentiate between "stupid" and "wrong."

Without knowing all the facts, there is a GREAT possibility that they were flat-out wrong with this investigation. But to sit back and claim that they are simply stupid is naive. Evil, pretentious, immoral; those are all possibilities. But I don't think "idiotic" is.

 

[BVS]

I'm just trying to differentiate between "stupid" and "wrong."

Without knowing all the facts, there is a GREAT possibility that they were flat-out wrong with this investigation. But to sit back and claim that they are simply stupid is naive. Evil, pretentious, immoral; those are all possibilities. But I don't think "idiotic" is.

Interesting. Maybe our definitions of "stupid" are different.

 

[nbcrusader]

Yet they are going after someone who checked out a book on communism, I wasn't aware the commies were a terrorist threat. Must be some new intelligence we have that the fundamentalist are converting.

Let's also take into consideration that this is a student checking out a book from a university library. Hmmm, I wonder if he could possibly be writing a paper.

But somehow our amazing protectors are going after students who check out books from universities which subject matter is about a non-threat. I for one feel much safer.

No one is arguing that students who check out books on communism should be investigated. From the posted story, it was only one of many factors (some identified, others not) that triggered the investigation.

 

[nbcrusader]

Ah yes. This is what's known as "the government is never wrong" viewpoint.



(oh yeah. And also a variation of the "it's for your own good" argument.)

Questioning attacks on a caricature of the government (instead of analysis of a situation) does not equal "the government is never wrong".

 

[BVS]

No one is arguing that students who check out books on communism should be investigated. From the posted story, it was only one of many factors (some identified, others not) that triggered the investigation.

The professors said the student was told by the agents that the book is on a "watch list," and that his background, which included significant time abroad, triggered them to investigate the student further.

Why would this book be on the watch list?

Time abroad, fine you may be able to argue that one. But this student would have never come up on the radar if he hadn't checked out this book.

Common sence. That's all I ask for.

 

[nbcrusader]

i fully understand where you're coming from, and you're making some points -- that, had i time, i'd debate -- but the continuous slamming of the forum in your posts really isn't necessary.

Sounds like a new version of the "government is never wrong" argument.

 

[Irvine511]

Sounds like a new version of the "government is never wrong" argument.

i have no idea what you're talking bout.

but i do know that your digs at FYM are relentlessly self-serving as well as inaccurate and unfair. this forum is made up of people, many of whom argue with clarity and passion, and often disagree with you.

for someone who screams bloody murder the second anyone criticizes aspects of Christianity, you'd do well not to slam an entire forum with sloppy broadstrokes.

 

[nbcrusader]

i have no idea what you're talking bout.

but i do know that your digs at FYM are relentlessly self-serving as well as inaccurate and unfair. this forum is made up of people, many of whom argue with clarity and passion, and often disagree with you.

for someone who screams bloody murder the second anyone criticizes aspects of Christianity, you'd do well not to slam an entire forum with sloppy broadstrokes.

As for one who openly posts that he will step on other toes to get his point across, I find your critique insincere and self-serving.

If you think this place is above any criticism, perhaps it would be worth stepping back and analyzing the methodologies used in posting. I think you would find a dose of constructive criticism may improve the quality of discussion instead of attacking what you perceived as an unwarranted attack on the forum.

 

[verte76]

I'm not sure nbcrusader is really *attacking* the forum. Rather, he is referring to our own leftist bent. I admit it, I'm a lefty, and so are the majority of people who post in this forum. Of course this is nothing to be ashamed of but it's true.