It's Official - America has gone to HELL

[Irvine511]

As for one who openly posts that he will step on other toes to get his point across, I find your critique insincere and self-serving.

If you think this place is above any criticism, perhaps it would be worth stepping back and analyzing the methodologies used in posting. I think you would find a dose of constructive criticism may improve the quality of discussion instead of attacking what you perceived as an unwarranted attack on the forum.

but you're not even critiquing, let alone offering anything remotely constructive -- you're simply bashing, implying that you've above and beyond the forum itself. i think it would be worth stepping back and taking a look in the mirror to see yourself repeating the same methodologies that you so quickly ascribe to everyone other than yourself.

this has nothing to do with me or my posts -- i readily admit that i hope i engender strong responses and strong critiques. you'll notice that i hadn't posted in either of the two threads you decided to spit upon. it's the sweeping aside of everyone that i object to -- i recommend you extend the same tact and courtesy you demand for yourself.

 

[VertigoGal]

nbcrusader didn't say anything wrong. he's got a point- just see the constant rude personal attacks on members like sting2 for proof.

maybe it wasn't "necessary" but it's not necessary for some people to respond to every single thread imaginable with a vague, humorous, completely irrelevant comment on how all conservatives as a group are evil/idiotic.

 

[nbcrusader]

but you're not even critiquing, let alone offering anything remotely constructive -- you're simply bashing, implying that you've above and beyond the forum itself. i think it would be worth stepping back and taking a look in the mirror to see yourself repeating the same methodologies that you so quickly ascribe to everyone other than yourself.

this has nothing to do with me or my posts -- i readily admit that i hope i engender strong responses and strong critiques. you'll notice that i hadn't posted in either of the two threads you decided to spit upon. it's the sweeping aside of everyone that i object to -- i recommend you extend the same tact and courtesy you demand for yourself.

It is easy to find meaning in my original post and then criticize the hell out of what you've found. It was a fairly beneign comment to make it your target of the day.

Perhaps I should have used the smilie. Or perhaps I should have just said lighted up.

 

[deep]

Excellent point. As much as some of us would like to believe it, the current administration is not "idiotic." You simply can't reach that level of power being stupid. It's a nice caricature to throw stones at, but it's hardly accurate.

ok , if you prefer we do not have to say stupid

they may border on corrupt, criminal, immoral, power abusers

the Mafia, and other regimes have had a tight holds on power and would not be called stupid

Karl Rove barely escaped indictment after he lied under oath
because his attorney met with some Times? reporter woman named Novak (no relation)
and she spilled the beans that she had testified that she had an email from Rove outing Plame.
At that point Rove's attorney had Rove go back at the 11th hour
and amend his testimony to include the email that he claimed he had just recalled.

 

[Irvine511]

nbcrusader didn't say anything wrong. he's got a point- just see the constant rude personal attacks on members like sting2 for proof.

maybe it wasn't "necessary" but it's not necessary for some people to respond to every single thread imaginable with a vague, humorous, completely irrelevant comment on how all conservatives as a group are evil/idiotic.

i suppose i find a difference between responding with passion to specific posts versus covering the entire forum -- of who knows how many posters and readers -- with derisive, dismissive statements, and then saying that it's constructive criticism.

 

[Irvine511]

It is easy to find meaning in my original post and then criticize the hell out of what you've found. It was a fairly beneign comment to make it your target of the day.

Perhaps I should have used the smilie. Or perhaps I should have just said lighted up.

well, i'm sorry then (i'm also operating on 3 hours of sleep), but i read at least two of these comments and all i can think is, "just who the fuck does he think he is? and why is he tossing aside the myriad oft brilliant posts by Melon, BVS, SherryDarling, joyfulgirl, Stammer, VertigoGal, Yolland, and so many others?"

(sorry if i forgot to mention anyone).

and on the ever-so-slightly personal note, i found it hypocritical for you to do so in the face of the great lengths i go to in order to distinguish between "christians" and "some organized, politicized Right Wing Christians."

 

[VertigoGal]

I can see how you read it that way, but I don't think it's worth making a big deal.

let's get back to the evils of government

 

[stammer476]

ok , if you prefer we do not have to say stupid

they may border on corrupt, criminal, immoral, power abusers

the Mafia, and other regimes have had a tight holds on power and would not be called stupid

You've got it, deep. (Seriously, no sarcasm here)

I guess I'm just tired of political arguments that boil down to "they're just idiots." Both sides do it (I try to be an equal opportunity critic ), and ironically, it's an argument that show a lack of critical thinking.

 

[Irvine511]

I can see how you read it that way, but I don't think it's worth making a big deal.

let's get back to the evils of government

it's a deal!

 

[VertigoGal]

Actually, based on the few candid interviews with him, I think Bush personally may be borderline idiot, but of course you're right about the administration in general stammer.

I think calling people idiots could imply they're intolerant or immoral, not necessarily plain stupid, but I'm not sure.

 

[deep]

Hello stammer476,

I certainly do not think Clinton was a stupid person.

However, I do think it was very stupid of him to allow himself to indulge in his behavior with Monica.

Even if there was no right wing conspiracy.
i.e. Lucianne Goldberg handling Linda Tripp, to get Monica on phone, taped recordings for hours, Tripp talking Monica into saving the "Blue Dress" when she said she would throw it out.

Although it was a conspiracy, Clinton’s behavior was stupid.
Monica alone could have gone "Fatal Attraction" on him.
It was a human failing.

This Administration’s failing are far worse.
They believe their own made-up legal findings, and believe they can get away with acting on them.
Anything less than organ failure or death is not torture??
And Gonzales is AG??


9-11 permits spying on Americans without oversight?
Their actions are stupid, ,they have gotten away with so much, as the boundaries have been stretched and obliterated
and a lap-dog GOP-partisan congress fails in their oversight obligations
They have acted stupidly
and GOP members better decide which side of history they want to fall on

 

[verte76]

ok , if you prefer we do not have to say stupid

]

I try not to do this but I've screwed up too. I once thought that a conservative poster had questioned my patriotism during the Iraq war controversy (when pretty much everyone was fired up, one way or the other) when in fact he did not do any such a thing, and I apologized. All FYM posters are human, therefore we screw up.

 

[Dreadsox]

I'm not sure nbcrusader is really *attacking* the forum. Rather, he is referring to our own leftist bent. I admit it, I'm a lefty, and so are the majority of people who post in this forum. Of course this is nothing to be ashamed of but it's true.

Well said.

 

[wizard2c]

reply

I use Barnes and Noble for research.....use cash when purchasing the book and do not use your Barnes and Noble card....this way they won't know what you're reading. Take a course in speed-reading and read the books while at the store. I would not suggest using Amazon........very trackable........

We do have freedom of speech....don't we?

 

[Zoomerang96]

glory, glory, guys!

i'm actually screaming with 7oy!!!! glory, glory hallelu7ah!!!! if we all scream loud enough, we won't notice the authorities!!!!!!

right kieran?!?!!?!?!? RIGHT?!?!?!?!??!!?!?!?

 

[financeguy]

I'm not sure nbcrusader is really *attacking* the forum. Rather, he is referring to our own leftist bent. I admit it, I'm a lefty, and so are the majority of people who post in this forum. Of course this is nothing to be ashamed of but it's true.

I don't mean to bang on about this but I honestly disagree with any suggestion that most here have a 'leftist bent'. I think that such perceptions are possibly a symptom of the US political scene which seems to me, speaking as an outsider, to have a sort of built-in right wing bias.

Personally I'm not a leftie OR a conservative, I don't want to be in either camp.

But I have to say some of you would be rather shocked if you browsed threads on an Irish political discussion forum I sometimes look at!

There are even (argh, the horror!) genuine 'lefties' on it, i.e. people who advocate various forms of socialism. There are others on this other forum who are conservatives, and even 4 or 5 who would largely admire and support the policies of Bush - but overall, there is MUCH more of a leftie bias than there is here.

 

[financeguy]

Although having delivered myself of the above no doubt inconsequential ramblings, it occurs to me that the majority of our American FYM contributors seem to be in tune with the American populace given Bush's recent poll ratings.

 

[verte76]

I don't mean to bang on about this but I honestly disagree with any suggestion that most here have a 'leftist bent'. I think that such perceptions are possibly a symptom of the US political scene which seems to me, speaking as an outsider, to have a sort of built-in right wing bias.

Personally I'm not a leftie OR a conservative, I don't want to be in either camp.

But I have to say some of you would be rather shocked if you browsed threads on an Irish political discussion forum I sometimes look at!

There are even (argh, the horror!) genuine 'lefties' on it, i.e. people who advocate various forms of socialism. There are others on this other forum who are conservatives, and even 4 or 5 who would largely admire and support the policies of Bush - but overall, there is MUCH more of a leftie bias than there is here.

There is a guy from Belfast on some other U2 list I'm on, and he's a socialist. He does make the Americans on the list look pretty conservative--including yours truly. I'm for some socialist-type stuff like national health insurance, but on the whole, we Americans do tilt rightward in matters political, look at who we elected president twice.

 

[financeguy]

There is a guy from Belfast on some other U2 list I'm on, and he's a socialist. He does make the Americans on the list look pretty conservative--including yours truly. I'm for some socialist-type stuff like national health insurance, but on the whole, we Americans do tilt rightward in matters political, look at who we elected president twice.

Interesting points there Verte. The funny thing is, national health insurance in Europe is not really viewed as a socialist policy or platform. For example, the right wing Conservative party was in power in Britain for close to 2 decades - and it left the National Health Service for the most part intact.

 

[Irvine511]

I don't mean to bang on about this but I honestly disagree with any suggestion that most here have a 'leftist bent'. I think that such perceptions are possibly a symptom of the US political scene which seems to me, speaking as an outsider, to have a sort of built-in right wing bias.

yup.

totally agree.

i'd also say that this forum has a "religion bias."

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

The funniest part of the story was that the professor said Mao was completely harmless. I thought being a professor meant he had education?


Also, FYM has become completely frightening. NBC barely said anything and he got torched for it. There is no more atmosphere of debate but rather one of moving in lockstep and those who dare speak something different (dread, nbc, sting) are castigated, drawn and quartered, and roasted.

 

[trevster2k]

The funniest part of the story was that the professor said Mao was completely harmless. I thought being a professor meant he had education?


Also, FYM has become completely frightening. NBC barely said anything and he got torched for it. There is no more atmosphere of debate but rather one of moving in lockstep and those who dare speak something different (dread, nbc, sting) are castigated, drawn and quartered, and roasted.

You forgot diamond

 

[anitram]

You forgot diamond

Stop aborting fetuses, trevster2k.

 

[financeguy]

Also, FYM has become completely frightening. NBC barely said anything and he got torched for it. There is no more atmosphere of debate but rather one of moving in lockstep and those who dare speak something different (dread, nbc, sting) are castigated, drawn and quartered, and roasted.

Sounds like a rather one-sided assessment to me.

And as Anitram alluded to in her post, let's not pretend the insults only fly one way around here.

But yeah I agree some of us, and I include myself, should make a greater effort to think before we post.

 

[BVS]

The funniest part of the story was that the professor said Mao was completely harmless. I thought being a professor meant he had education?


Also, FYM has become completely frightening. NBC barely said anything and he got torched for it. There is no more atmosphere of debate but rather one of moving in lockstep and those who dare speak something different (dread, nbc, sting) are castigated, drawn and quartered, and roasted.

 

[VertigoGal]

I agree that the American political mindset is as a whole more conservative than in Europe (rest of the world?)...although about Ireland I was under the impression that it was one of the more conservative of the European countries. Anyway when it's a thread about American politics, I think people are usually speaking about the American political spectrum when they say it leans left.

Ft Worth Frog...I seriously doubt the professor saw Mao as harmless, literally. I think he meant that in this age a more significant potential threat comes from people who visit Islamic terror training websites for example, than people who read the little red book!

 

[AvsGirl41]

The funniest part of the story was that the professor said Mao was completely harmless. I thought being a professor meant he had education?

Do you think Mao is a threat?

He's been dead and...embalmed for years now.

I'm not going to defend a professor I don't know, but I honestly doubt he was saying "Mao's a great guy." I believe he was speaking in the current context, yes? Since Homeland Security's focus is supposed to be terrorism, largely the Al-Qaida kind, I would have to concur with his statement. I don't know of any terrorist attacks where the suicide bomber quoted the Little Red Book before detonating.

I wouldn't expect any professor to list Mao's crimes, or Stalin's, in an article about one of his students and their run-in with Homeland Security. That's just stupid.

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

Then it seems to me that he should have chosen his words a little more carefully. Mao murdered millions and showed no regret for it whatsoever and the sad thing is many people look at him like some kind of folk hero. Even though he is dead his ideas still live on...and they are dangerous ideas the same as Hitler's, Lenin's, and Stalin's.

 

[Irvine511]

Also, FYM has become completely frightening. NBC barely said anything and he got torched for it. There is no more atmosphere of debate but rather one of moving in lockstep and those who dare speak something different (dread, nbc, sting) are castigated, drawn and quartered, and roasted.

oh for chrissakes.

i was objecting to a pattern i have been noticing, and saw twice today alone, of NBC bashing the entire forum. there was nothing political about it, nothing about a lockstep mentality, it was all about extending the courtesy to others that he (rightfully) demands for himself.

and it was just me who jumped on his back. so don't make the mistake of blaming all of FYM for the actions of one poster.

also, if you go back and read some of the posts by some of those you mention, it's hardly as one-sided as you make it out to be -- there contentious things posted, on both sides, and i know that all of those people you mentioned are more than capable of defending themselves and their positions.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Maoists raise suicide squads

The possibility of the CPI (Maoist) raising 'suicide squads' has sent shivers down the spine of Bihar police.

According to intelligence reports, the celebrations held on December 25 by the Maoists in Nepal, just 20 km from Sheohar district in Bihar, to mark the 25th foundation day of People's Guerrilla Army (PLA), saw 12 PLA members taking an oath to "lay down our lives in the battlefield for the poor".

During the celebrations, the outfit's central committee member Praveen pledged to take their military offensive to "a new height".

He also hailed the "vast growth" of the organisation in Bihar. The attack on Jehanabad jail, during which over 200 Maoists were forcibly freed on November 13 midnight, was referred to as a "great achievement", intelligence sources said.

"The motivation level of extremists, specially youths among them, is as high as that of Islamic terrorists. If the Naxalites carry out their threats, it can be as damaging as the fidayeen attack," said an IG-rank official.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1336116,curpg-1.cms