It's Official - America has gone to HELL - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-20-2005, 01:35 PM   #16
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
VertigoGal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: I'm never alone (I'm alone all the time)
Posts: 9,860
Local Time: 06:42 PM
That's unfortunate. I hope this and the eavesdropping reports aren't just forgotten and brushed aside.
__________________

__________________
VertigoGal is offline  
Old 12-20-2005, 01:45 PM   #17
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:42 PM
Let's take a look at the possible responses to the initial post. We can:

1) cry out against the unreasonable steps our government is taking (and toss in a bit of hyperbole for flavor).

2) agree fully with the government action (possibly a bannable offense for FYM).

3) suggest a modified list of factors that would trigger an appropriate investigation.

After all, there are some patterns of behavior which warrant investigation (as we'd like to catch the cells before the next attack). The question is really: is this an isolated incident (where a combination of factors triggered an investigation, even though a separate analysis of the factors would not warrant an investigation), or is it part of a larger investigatory scheme?
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:02 PM   #18
Refugee
 
stammer476's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,058
Local Time: 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
After all, there are some patterns of behavior which warrant investigation (as we'd like to catch the cells before the next attack). The question is really: is this an isolated incident (where a combination of factors triggered an investigation, even though a separate analysis of the factors would not warrant an investigation), or is it part of a larger investigatory scheme?
Excellent point. As much as some of us would like to believe it, the current administration is not "idiotic." You simply can't reach that level of power being stupid. It's a nice caricature to throw stones at, but it's hardly accurate.

And since it's silly to snoop around about a student searching for communist materials, I think the more logical conclusion is that there's more to this story than we know.
__________________
stammer476 is offline  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:06 PM   #19
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,651
Local Time: 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Let's take a look at the possible responses to the initial post. We can:

1) cry out against the unreasonable steps our government is taking (and toss in a bit of hyperbole for flavor).

2) agree fully with the government action (possibly a bannable offense for FYM).

3) suggest a modified list of factors that would trigger an appropriate investigation.

After all, there are some patterns of behavior which warrant investigation (as we'd like to catch the cells before the next attack). The question is really: is this an isolated incident (where a combination of factors triggered an investigation, even though a separate analysis of the factors would not warrant an investigation), or is it part of a larger investigatory scheme?
Or we could ask our Homeland Security to use logic and common sense when protecting this country instead of wasting our tax dollars.

Let's see;
Quote:
an independent agency established by and accountable to the President in 2001; develops and implements a national strategy to make the United States safe from terrorist threats or attacks
Yet they are going after someone who checked out a book on communism, I wasn't aware the commies were a terrorist threat. Must be some new intelligence we have that the fundamentalist are converting.

Let's also take into consideration that this is a student checking out a book from a university library. Hmmm, I wonder if he could possibly be writing a paper.

But somehow our amazing protectors are going after students who check out books from universities which subject matter is about a non-threat. I for one feel much safer.


Quote:
is this an isolated incident
Well given some other threads here in FYM this isn't an isolated incident.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:07 PM   #20
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by stammer476


Excellent point. As much as some of us would like to believe it, the current administration is not "idiotic." You simply can't reach that level of power being stupid. It's a nice caricature to throw stones at, but it's hardly accurate.

And since it's silly to snoop around about a student searching for communist materials, I think the more logical conclusion is that there's more to this story than we know.
Ah yes. This is what's known as "the government is never wrong" viewpoint.



(oh yeah. And also a variation of the "it's for your own good" argument.)
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:14 PM   #21
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
2) agree fully with the government action (possibly a bannable offense for FYM).


i fully understand where you're coming from, and you're making some points -- that, had i time, i'd debate -- but the continuous slamming of the forum in your posts really isn't necessary.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:16 PM   #22
Refugee
 
stammer476's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,058
Local Time: 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra


Ah yes. This is what's known as "the government is never wrong" viewpoint.



(oh yeah. And also a variation of the "it's for your own good" argument.)
Actually, that's not at all what I was saying.

I'm just trying to differentiate between "stupid" and "wrong."

Without knowing all the facts, there is a GREAT possibility that they were flat-out wrong with this investigation. But to sit back and claim that they are simply stupid is naive. Evil, pretentious, immoral; those are all possibilities. But I don't think "idiotic" is.
__________________
stammer476 is offline  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:25 PM   #23
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,651
Local Time: 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by stammer476


I'm just trying to differentiate between "stupid" and "wrong."

Without knowing all the facts, there is a GREAT possibility that they were flat-out wrong with this investigation. But to sit back and claim that they are simply stupid is naive. Evil, pretentious, immoral; those are all possibilities. But I don't think "idiotic" is.
Interesting. Maybe our definitions of "stupid" are different.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:25 PM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Yet they are going after someone who checked out a book on communism, I wasn't aware the commies were a terrorist threat. Must be some new intelligence we have that the fundamentalist are converting.

Let's also take into consideration that this is a student checking out a book from a university library. Hmmm, I wonder if he could possibly be writing a paper.

But somehow our amazing protectors are going after students who check out books from universities which subject matter is about a non-threat. I for one feel much safer.
No one is arguing that students who check out books on communism should be investigated. From the posted story, it was only one of many factors (some identified, others not) that triggered the investigation.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:26 PM   #25
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra


Ah yes. This is what's known as "the government is never wrong" viewpoint.



(oh yeah. And also a variation of the "it's for your own good" argument.)
Questioning attacks on a caricature of the government (instead of analysis of a situation) does not equal "the government is never wrong".
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:30 PM   #26
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,651
Local Time: 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


No one is arguing that students who check out books on communism should be investigated. From the posted story, it was only one of many factors (some identified, others not) that triggered the investigation.
Quote:
The professors said the student was told by the agents that the book is on a "watch list," and that his background, which included significant time abroad, triggered them to investigate the student further.
Why would this book be on the watch list?

Time abroad, fine you may be able to argue that one. But this student would have never come up on the radar if he hadn't checked out this book.

Common sence. That's all I ask for.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:33 PM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i fully understand where you're coming from, and you're making some points -- that, had i time, i'd debate -- but the continuous slamming of the forum in your posts really isn't necessary.

Sounds like a new version of the "government is never wrong" argument.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:36 PM   #28
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader



Sounds like a new version of the "government is never wrong" argument.


i have no idea what you're talking bout.

but i do know that your digs at FYM are relentlessly self-serving as well as inaccurate and unfair. this forum is made up of people, many of whom argue with clarity and passion, and often disagree with you.

for someone who screams bloody murder the second anyone criticizes aspects of Christianity, you'd do well not to slam an entire forum with sloppy broadstrokes.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:52 PM   #29
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i have no idea what you're talking bout.

but i do know that your digs at FYM are relentlessly self-serving as well as inaccurate and unfair. this forum is made up of people, many of whom argue with clarity and passion, and often disagree with you.

for someone who screams bloody murder the second anyone criticizes aspects of Christianity, you'd do well not to slam an entire forum with sloppy broadstrokes.
As for one who openly posts that he will step on other toes to get his point across, I find your critique insincere and self-serving.

If you think this place is above any criticism, perhaps it would be worth stepping back and analyzing the methodologies used in posting. I think you would find a dose of constructive criticism may improve the quality of discussion instead of attacking what you perceived as an unwarranted attack on the forum.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-20-2005, 03:12 PM   #30
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 11:42 PM
I'm not sure nbcrusader is really *attacking* the forum. Rather, he is referring to our own leftist bent. I admit it, I'm a lefty, and so are the majority of people who post in this forum. Of course this is nothing to be ashamed of but it's true.
__________________

__________________
verte76 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com