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Old 11-03-2006, 01:09 PM   #121
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Originally posted by AEON


There is not a system on earth that someone could truthfully say is perfectly consistent.

In my journey, "conservative" Christianity is the most consistent belief system I've come across.
this has to be the funniest post in a long time. I show you everyday how inconsistent it is, yet you usually ignore those post. I don't blame you, for it destroys the base of most of your arguments.

The point is not a perfect system, but one that is consistent, consistent doesn't mean perfect. But until CCs start pushing for moral laws that will actual effect them they really have nothing to stand on.
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:43 PM   #122
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Do you even read my posts? I never said just saying an action is wrong is condemning? Where did I say that?

I said pushing for a law against this one action, yet none that would effect themselves is condemning.

Good grief.
Of course I read your posts. What you said was that being against homosexual marriage is condemning homosexuals. I said it is not. You have not shown me one iota of evidence to prove me wrong.

Good grief.
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:49 PM   #123
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Of course I read your posts. What you said was that being against homosexual marriage is condemning homosexuals. I said it is not. You have not shown me one iota of evidence to prove me wrong.

Good grief.
Obviously you aren't reading my posts. Once again I said PUSHING FOR THE LEGISLATION is condemning, especially when you aren't pushing for any THAT WILL EFFECT YOURSELF!!!

Be against it all you want, I could care less, but when you take it the step further it's condemning. Don't fool yourself.
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:50 PM   #124
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Originally posted by AEON
and you summarize the entire Bible with “love they neighbor” – it makes perfect logical sense to live this way.
It doesn't say "Stick your nose into your neighbor's private business" does it?
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:54 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Obviously you aren't reading my posts. Once again I said PUSHING FOR THE LEGISLATION is condemning, especially when you aren't pushing for any THAT WILL EFFECT YOURSELF!!!

Be against it all you want, I could care less, but when you take it the step further it's condemning. Don't fool yourself.
Jiminy Cricket, BVS, how many times do I have to say this? I freely admitted that it is condemning actions. What I said was that it not condemning the people who commit the action. You ahven't shown me how it is condemning people

I am tired of arguing this point with you. You are arguing against something I never said.
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Old 11-03-2006, 02:05 PM   #126
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80's would you agree that singling out someone's sin as being worse than other's sin as condemning the person?

If not, then where is the line of condemning a person?
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Old 11-03-2006, 02:22 PM   #127
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Originally posted by martha


It doesn't say "Stick your nose into your neighbor's private business" does it?
No. It says love.
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Old 11-03-2006, 02:29 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
80's would you agree that singling out someone's sin as being worse than other's sin as condemning the person?

If not, then where is the line of condemning a person?
No, I would not agree. Pointing out a sin makes no condemnation of the person doing that sin at all, whether the person pointing out the sin says it's worse than his own or whether he doesn't make any comparison at all. It merely condemns the sin as a sin; it does not judge/condemn the person.

Now, if I were to say "You are a horrible person for having homosexual sex", that would be judging the person. If I were to say "you are going to go to hell for having homosexual sex", that would be condemning the person.

As for myself, I believe that every unforgiven sin has the same "spiritual consequence" - it separates a person from God. However, I would be a fool to think that every sin has the same "worldly consequence". For example, saying a curse word will have much less of a worldly consequence than murdering someone.

As far as "worldly consequence", I think there are many many sins worse than homosexual relations. Murder, rape, abuse, any sin fueled by hatred, I consider worse than homosexual relations.

I also consider adultery to be a worse sin than homosexual sex between two homosexuals who are not married to anyone. For the record, I would support a law against adultery. I think many states already have them. They are not enforced, but they're on the books.

There are many other sins I consider to be worse than homosexual sex.
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Old 11-03-2006, 03:20 PM   #129
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


No, I would not agree. Pointing out a sin makes no condemnation of the person doing that sin at all, whether the person pointing out the sin says it's worse than his own or whether he doesn't make any comparison at all. It merely condemns the sin as a sin; it does not judge/condemn the person.
80's, please read my posts carefully. I'm not talking about just pointing out a sin. I'm talking about the action of singling it out worse than others.
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Now, if I were to say "You are a horrible person for having homosexual sex", that would be judging the person. If I were to say "you are going to go to hell for having homosexual sex", that would be condemning the person.
Isn't that what's going on right now in America?
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

As for myself, I believe that every unforgiven sin has the same "spiritual consequence" - it separates a person from God. However, I would be a fool to think that every sin has the same "worldly consequence". For example, saying a curse word will have much less of a worldly consequence than murdering someone.
Interesting, so do you believe as AEON believes that once you are a Christian all sins past, present, and future are forgiven?

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

For the record, I would support a law against adultery. I think many states already have them. They are not enforced, but they're on the books.

There are many other sins I consider to be worse than homosexual sex.
Well then don't you see the hypocricy of the CCs that aren't supporting these adultery laws?

Not to mention those men who remarry if their first wife didn't cheat on them.

And those poor women they have no right to divorce, according to the Bible.
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Old 11-03-2006, 03:28 PM   #130
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
For the record, I would support a law against adultery. I think many states already have them. They are not enforced, but they're on the books.
How are you going to enforce that one? How much time will you spend in other people's bedrooms?!
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Old 11-03-2006, 03:49 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


80's, please read my posts carefully. I'm not talking about just pointing out a sin. I'm talking about the action of singling it out worse than others.
I addressed that when I typed:

"Pointing out a sin makes no condemnation of the person doing that sin at all, whether the person pointing out the sin says it's worse than his own or whether he doesn't make any comparison at all."

Okay, I used the phrase "worse than his own" instead of "worse than others", but it's the same idea.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Isn't that what's going on right now in America?
Not for the most part. I don't think most Christians say "homosexual sin will put you in hell" I think most Christians say "unforgiven sin will put you in hell".

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Interesting, so do you believe as AEON believes that once you are a Christian all sins past, present, and future are forgiven?
Yes, that's what I believe.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
don't you see the hypocricy of the CCs that aren't supporting these adultery laws?
If a Christian supports laws against homosexual marraige but doesn't support laws against adultery, then I believe that person is wrong. However, I don't know of any adultery laws that are being voted on.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Not to mention those men who remarry if their first wife didn't cheat on them.
Or women. In fact, according to Christ, a person isn't even allowed to file for divorce unless the spouse has committed adultery.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
And those poor women they have no right to divorce, according to the Bible.
A woman can file for divorce if her husband has cheated on her, according to Christ.
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Old 11-03-2006, 03:51 PM   #132
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Originally posted by martha


How are you going to enforce that one? How much time will you spend in other people's bedrooms?!
This I what I would say: if a person has proof that that spouse committed adultery, the person can file charges and there would be a trial.
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Old 11-03-2006, 03:58 PM   #133
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
This I what I would say: if a person has proof that that spouse committed adultery, the person can file charges and there would be a trial.
And the evidence presented in the trial is collected how?
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Old 11-03-2006, 04:14 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I addressed that when I typed:

"Pointing out a sin makes no condemnation of the person doing that sin at all, whether the person pointing out the sin says it's worse than his own or whether he doesn't make any comparison at all."

Okay, I used the phrase "worse than his own" instead of "worse than others", but it's the same idea.
80's you aren't getting it, at all. Making a law against isn't merely pointing it out!!! Especially when you don't outlaw others. Why can't you get that? Making a law against isn't merely pointing it out!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Not for the most part. I don't think most Christians say "homosexual sin will put you in hell" I think most Christians say "unforgiven sin will put you in hell".
Guess we haven't been reading the same articles or watching the same TV.


Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Yes, that's what I believe.
So then why couldn't Christian homosexuals get married, they're protected?

And why do we still ask for forgiveness?




Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

If a Christian supports laws against homosexual marraige but doesn't support laws against adultery, then I believe that person is wrong. However, I don't know of any adultery laws that are being voted on.
I don't see anyone calling for it as well. So the hypocricy is still there.


Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Or women. In fact, according to Christ, a person isn't even allowed to file for divorce unless the spouse has committed adultery.
No, it says men can only divorce if their wife commits adultery.


Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

A woman can file for divorce if her husband has cheated on her, according to Christ.
It doesn't say that
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Old 11-03-2006, 05:49 PM   #135
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I and other Christians have been mocked and scolded by many people on this forum; from a NonChristian, it doesn't bother me a whole lot. But to get that kind of treatment from Christians goes against how the Bible says we are to treat other Christians. Christians are told to love each other, lift each other up and support each other. Public statements, mockings and insults made by a Christian against other Christians do nothing to improve any situation and certainly does not show love to his/her brethern.
So how, in the name of Love, can we be pushing legislature that condemns the lives of people, lots of them fellow Christians like Melon, simply over who they love intimately? Public statements, mockings and insults to our fellow Christian, Melon, are being made all of the time. Where is the love in taking a stance on hurting the lives of gay people by claiming they are "sinning"?

Why hold so dearly to the literal word of a few passages aimed at sexual preference when there is poverty in this world and many, many, many passages in the Bible stating how important it is to help the poor. Why can’t all Christians spend their energy helping the poor – not trying to take away rights or not give rights to someone over who they love?

Everyone is busy, everyone can’t spend time on every issue. But, if a Christian is to find themselves in a position to help make this world a better place – make this world a more loving place – then criticizing gay people and pushing laws that isolate them is certainly not the best way to do this. Helping people would make this world a better place. Whether that means being a big brother to a child that has no father figure, visiting a lonely elderly person that could use the company, preparing or serving food at a soup kitchen, lending a hand like shoveling a walkway or repairing a facuet for a person in need, raising money to build wells for people that have no water, or joining the campaign to eliminate poverty when we have the science, technology and wealth to make sure that a child does not need to die for lack of food in it’s belly. Helping people should be the common denominator for all Christians in their beliefs. Love thy neighbor.

So, I have to ask you 80sU2isBest (and others arguing in this thread), why are you spending your energy saying you don’t approve of giving gay people rights because of what the bible says, and then saying that you aren’t saying that they are going to hell or that you are condemning them or hating them or anything of the sort when in reality – your disapproval is differentiating gay people from yourself and eliminating the word “equal” and this is causing hurt and pain to gay people who just want to love and be loved. Why is it so important for some Christians to spend so much energy on it when all Christians, myself included, are not even in agreement in believing this to be right?

My thoughts are that perhaps the Christians that are arguing so fiercely about not giving gay people rights are perhaps the ones that are not showing love to his/her brethren. Where is the love in this argument to be right about not giving people a right to love who they want?
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