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Old 10-30-2006, 09:14 PM   #46
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Public statements, mockings and insults made by a Christian against other Christians do nothing to improve any situation and certainly does not show love to his/her brethern.
Yeah, right.

Why do we constantly ask that Muslim moderates speak up against their extremists if we are not willing to clean our own houses first?

BTW, I am not talking about you, 80s in case you think I'm labelling you as such.

But as a Christian, I think it's my duty to call out Christians who pervert the Gospel, who teach hatred, who would hijack our religion and make it political when the early Christians clearly rejected all forms of theocracy. I will speak out against it because it offends me to the core what some of these people have done. The ones who go bombing abortion clinics, the ones who protest at army funerals claming this is God's wrath for homosexual acts, the ones who insist on installing a theocracy in secular government, the ones who pervert science and then demand we give their non-scientific theories equal coverage in a ... you guessed it, science class! I don't feel any compulsion to treat them with kid gloves because we happen to share a common religious background. If anything, that should spurn us to examine their behaviour even more closely.
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Old 10-30-2006, 10:21 PM   #47
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Originally posted by anitram


Yeah, right.

Why do we constantly ask that Muslim moderates speak up against their extremists if we are not willing to clean our own houses first?

BTW, I am not talking about you, 80s in case you think I'm labelling you as such.

But as a Christian, I think it's my duty to call out Christians who pervert the Gospel, who teach hatred, who would hijack our religion and make it political when the early Christians clearly rejected all forms of theocracy. I will speak out against it because it offends me to the core what some of these people have done. The ones who go bombing abortion clinics, the ones who protest at army funerals claming this is God's wrath for homosexual acts, the ones who insist on installing a theocracy in secular government, the ones who pervert science and then demand we give their non-scientific theories equal coverage in a ... you guessed it, science class! I don't feel any compulsion to treat them with kid gloves because we happen to share a common religious background. If anything, that should spurn us to examine their behaviour even more closely.
There is nothing wrong with having a debate with another Christian.

But what about sin, like you mentioed? If you are a Christian, and you see another Christian sinning, the Bible tells you how to handle that. You are to go to that perosn first; if he doesn't stop, you are to take two others with you. Only after that are you allowed to take it "before the church".

And the things I am referring to don't even have to do with sinning. I have seen instances in which Christians have been mocked by other Christians simply for having a different view point. And that is not right.
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Old 10-31-2006, 07:11 AM   #48
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest



And the things I am referring to don't even have to do with sinning. I have seen instances in which Christians have been mocked by other Christians simply for having a different view point. And that is not right.
I know I end up on the opposite side of my fellow Christians on many issues here on FYM (Makes me wonder how much of that might be due to some smug sense that I thnk "I know better than everybody else"--Yikes!).

But I hope I've never mocked anyone. I would assume that you don't include vehement disagreement as a form of mockery. I would also assume that you are not suggesting that Christians must always present a "unified front" to "the world" to the extent that we ignore our conscience for the sake of that unity, voice support for issues we don't actually support, or allow Christ to be misrepresented. (And never mind, deciding who within Christianity gets to decide what the standard line will be).

When I post, I'm not trying to "join the Christian-bashing bandwagon." But when I see things being said that I believe are in direct contradiction to the message of Jesus, when I see people being driven away from the Lord, I feel duty bound to speak up.

I know it can be frustrating to see someone charging into the fray, trying desperately to lift up the name of Jesus, surrounded by hostility on every side and then see that some of his/her brothers and sisters in Christ are also slinging arrows of critcism. But look at it this way--if you see someone (like say, me) out there "defending Christ" but saying things that you believe with all your heart are misleading people and misrepresenting Christ to them, surely you can understand feeling the need to speak up and say, "No. No that's not what Christianity is all about."

We all have to be true to our convictions.
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Old 10-31-2006, 09:09 AM   #49
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I'm at the point where I wish that Christianity never existed. God deserves better than this.

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Old 10-31-2006, 09:34 AM   #50
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Originally posted by maycocksean


I know I end up on the opposite side of my fellow Christians on many issues here on FYM (Makes me wonder how much of that might be due to some smug sense that I thnk "I know better than everybody else"--Yikes!).

But I hope I've never mocked anyone. I would assume that you don't include vehement disagreement as a form of mockery. I would also assume that you are not suggesting that Christians must always present a "unified front" to "the world" to the extent that we ignore our conscience for the sake of that unity, voice support for issues we don't actually support, or allow Christ to be misrepresented. (And never mind, deciding who within Christianity gets to decide what the standard line will be).

When I post, I'm not trying to "join the Christian-bashing bandwagon." But when I see things being said that I believe are in direct contradiction to the message of Jesus, when I see people being driven away from the Lord, I feel duty bound to speak up.

I know it can be frustrating to see someone charging into the fray, trying desperately to lift up the name of Jesus, surrounded by hostility on every side and then see that some of his/her brothers and sisters in Christ are also slinging arrows of critcism. But look at it this way--if you see someone (like say, me) out there "defending Christ" but saying things that you believe with all your heart are misleading people and misrepresenting Christ to them, surely you can understand feeling the need to speak up and say, "No. No that's not what Christianity is all about."

We all have to be true to our convictions.
I have been mocked by people who call themselves Christians (whether they are or not, I have no way of knowing), and I have been "called out" by people who call themselves Christians, even at times when there there would be no chance that I was "misleading people and misrepresenting Christ".
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Old 10-31-2006, 09:37 AM   #51
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God deserves better than this.

Melon
Indeed He does. Thankfully, there is such a thing called Grace.
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Old 10-31-2006, 09:08 PM   #52
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I have been "called out" by people who call themselves Christians, even at times when there there would be no chance that I was "misleading people and misrepresenting Christ".
Perhaps not in your view.
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:23 PM   #53
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Perhaps not in your view.
When I speak of Christ, I support what I say Biblically.
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Old 11-01-2006, 02:39 AM   #54
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When I speak of Christ, I support what I say Biblically.
I understand that. The thing is I do as well, yet I can easily find myself in a disagreement with another Bible-believing Christian (such as yourself). But I'll leave it at that.

This thread and a couple of others have left me feeling kind of sick at heart. I've felt a need to kind of clean up my own house a bit.

What follows was actually meant to be a PM but since 80s doesn't take PMs, I'm putting it out there--not meaning to "clog up the thread" but I wasn't sure how else to say what I felt I needed to say.

So if you're not 80's you may feel free to disregard the following:

I was reading this afternoon in Philippians chapter 2 where Paul says “If therefore there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.” As I was reading, it seemed these texts really seemed to address your concerns about the way we Christians treat each other on FYM at time and I felt like I kind of “got” what you’d been trying to say.

I can see how disheartening it must be to be out there trying to share a Christian perspective, and to have other Christians—people who are supposed to be your brothers and sisters brutally attacking you. I know I’ve felt that and it is sad. Here we are supposed to be of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose, and yet here we are attacking one another. It doesn’t seem right. And yet, we do have the same mind—the mind of Christ, the same love, we in fact do share the same purpose—to represent Jesus well in the world, to be a light, so that others might see Him and be drawn to Him. I’ve realized I need to remember that commonality, be aware of it and of the sincere hearts of my fellow Christians with whom I might disagree. I guess your recent posts plus my reading in scripture have challenged me to be more aware of that basic unity and to take more care when disagreeing with my fellow Christians or providing a different Christian perspective. From here on out, as we post, I hope you won’t feel “blindsided” by me as a brother in Christ, even when we disagree.

God bless, and be encouraged.

Sean
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Old 11-01-2006, 02:48 AM   #55
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


When I speak of Christ, I support what I say Biblically.
So does Melon, AEON, myself and many others...

Yet, you've seen the outcomes...
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Old 11-01-2006, 10:28 AM   #56
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Originally posted by maycocksean


I was reading this afternoon in Philippians chapter 2 where Paul says “If therefore there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.” As I was reading, it seemed these texts really seemed to address your concerns about the way we Christians treat each other on FYM at time and I felt like I kind of “got” what you’d been trying to say.

I can see how disheartening it must be to be out there trying to share a Christian perspective, and to have other Christians—people who are supposed to be your brothers and sisters brutally attacking you. I know I’ve felt that and it is sad. Here we are supposed to be of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose, and yet here we are attacking one another. It doesn’t seem right. And yet, we do have the same mind—the mind of Christ, the same love, we in fact do share the same purpose—to represent Jesus well in the world, to be a light, so that others might see Him and be drawn to Him. I’ve realized I need to remember that commonality, be aware of it and of the sincere hearts of my fellow Christians with whom I might disagree. I guess your recent posts plus my reading in scripture have challenged me to be more aware of that basic unity and to take more care when disagreeing with my fellow Christians or providing a different Christian perspective. From here on out, as we post, I hope you won’t feel “blindsided” by me as a brother in Christ, even when we disagree.

God bless, and be encouraged.

Sean
Sean, I really appreciate that. I might say more, when I know what to say, but for now, I just wanted you to know that I read it, and it means a lot to me. Thanks a bunch.
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Old 11-01-2006, 06:48 PM   #57
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Something for some Christians to think about before they shout, get angry, or blatantly call someone a name...

Colossians 3:8

"But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips."
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Old 11-01-2006, 07:16 PM   #58
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Originally posted by AEON
Something for some Christians to think about before they shout, get angry, or blatantly call someone a name...

Colossians 3:8

"But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips."
Good advice for all. Interesting though the concept of "filthy language", what is "filthy" language? Other translations say, "abusive", or "shameful".



But isn't there a time for anger?
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Old 11-01-2006, 07:32 PM   #59
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But isn't there a time for anger?
I think so, but I believe those moments are few and far between.

There is only one time in the Bible where Jesus demonstrates anger (please correct if I am wrong) – when he throws out the money changers from the Temple grounds. These people were taking advantage yhose who were trying to get to know and worship the one true God.

Jesus certainly had many other occasions to get angry. He was insulted, mocked, beaten, and then finally, crucified. Even as He died on the cross he called out for His Father to forgive those that crucified Him.

I think the example Jesus set was that we shouldn’t respond in anger to those who insult us or mistreat us. It is a far greater testimony of strength and character to respond with love and kindness.

However, there does seem to be some allowance for anger against people that take advantage of those seeking a relationship with Him. That is how I interpret the story of the Clearing of the Temple.
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Old 11-01-2006, 08:16 PM   #60
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I think so, but I believe those moments are few and far between.
I have certainly been more than patient.

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I think the example Jesus set was that we shouldn’t respond in anger to those who insult us or mistreat us. It is a far greater testimony of strength and character to respond with love and kindness.
And it does no good when one thinly veils contempt within the guise of "love and kindness." As far as I'm concerned, not only does that negate the "love and kindness," but you're also bearing false witness.

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However, there does seem to be some allowance for anger against people that take advantage of those seeking a relationship with Him. That is how I interpret the story of the Clearing of the Temple.
Sounds like my anger was appropriate then.

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