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Old 01-30-2003, 10:58 AM   #31
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl
When I was in high school, in a small, very conservative right-wing Southern town, a classmate of my sister's got pregnant and had to 'go away' for awhile. She left town to have the baby and put it up for adoption. When she returned, she was an outcast. My sister was her only friend. One day she (the girl) passed around stones to her classmates that had the Bible verse quoted in this story painted on the stone.
I quoted this from another thread in here.

To be honest, *this* is a huge part of the problem in regards as to why women have abortions. Certainly, in an ideal world, people would not have sex until they are married, blah blah blah. But the reality is that we don't live at all in that "ideal," black-and-white world, and people are going to make mistakes. So what do people do to those who get pregnant? Start judging, sneering, and casting those proverbial stones. Why would anyone want to put themselves through this? So a lot of women will make likely the difficult decision to abort the child, rather than take on all this abuse from "Christian" people.

I went to a Catholic high school. I cannot count on my hands the number of popular girls who had abortions; some of them having multiple ones. But what happens to those who "do the right thing" and carry them to term? They miss school and get snickered at. The legality of abortion will not change this fact, and women will certainly get "back alley" abortions if they are made illegal.

We must face this fact, and stop the self-righteousness.

Melon
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Old 01-30-2003, 12:55 PM   #32
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Im just saying that if those 43 million abortions werent done safely the mothers could have died too.
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Old 01-30-2003, 01:57 PM   #33
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Originally posted by martha
Yep, thirty years since women haven't had a coat hanger inserted into their vaginas to end a pregnancy. Thirty years that women haven't bled to death in private homes when they had abortions. Thirty years of women controlling their own reproductive systems. Thirty years since women have had the right to make their own decisions about their own bodies. Thirty years where almost every young woman of a certain age brought to the emergency room wasn't the result of an abortion she got at the hands of a person with a piece of wire. Thirty years of access to safe pregnancy termination. Thirty years of men not having a say in what happens to my body.

There is no debate on the need for safe and legal abortion. As one of my favorite sayings goes: Against abortion? Then don't have one.
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I can speak up and say it is wrong for you to impose your theology on my body.

AMEN!
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Old 01-30-2003, 01:58 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I quoted this from another thread in here.

To be honest, *this* is a huge part of the problem in regards as to why women have abortions. Certainly, in an ideal world, people would not have sex until they are married, blah blah blah. But the reality is that we don't live at all in that "ideal," black-and-white world, and people are going to make mistakes. So what do people do to those who get pregnant? Start judging, sneering, and casting those proverbial stones. Why would anyone want to put themselves through this? So a lot of women will make likely the difficult decision to abort the child, rather than take on all this abuse from "Christian" people.

I went to a Catholic high school. I cannot count on my hands the number of popular girls who had abortions; some of them having multiple ones. But what happens to those who "do the right thing" and carry them to term? They miss school and get snickered at. The legality of abortion will not change this fact, and women will certainly get "back alley" abortions if they are made illegal.

We must face this fact, and stop the self-righteousness.

Melon
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Old 02-01-2003, 10:20 PM   #35
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Originally posted by DebbieSG
I think the little egg changes the moment the little swimmy thing crashes through and gives it the fertilization that makes cells start splitting.

the women doesn't own anything, God does!

does anyone agree with me?
I strongly disagree with the second paragraph. God doesnīt own me. So why should he own any other life.

I agree with the first paragraph, but I think women should have their free choice. if you or anyone else decides to not ever abort for whatever reason, fine by you. But if a potential mother chooses not to be mother, its her decision.

Yes, there are the potential rights of the unborn child. But the unborn child canīt execute them. It should be upon the person who is closest to the unborn, which in my opinion is the mother, to decide.

I donīt think that every mother who aborts is totally careless or stupid. I think its a very difficult decision in many cases, so equalling it with killing someone, like as if I took a gun, ran out on the street and murder someone just because Iīm in the mood to do so, is not drawing the right parallel.

What about rape, like I mentioned in another thread. Why should a woman who has been raped be forced by law to keep a baby she probably doesnīt feel as being her baby, for 9 months as a part of her body - (at the very least, if then there would be the possibilty of adoption)? Donīt you think the unborn baby recognizes that its not wanted?

What about the abortions that will happen anyway when they are forbidden, then women wonīt be treated in a hospital, but probably get an infection bc of a stupid doctor? Women died for that. Donīt they have a right to live?

Its a difficult question, and I am against careless abortion. But I think you can only leave the decision to the potential mother (and probably a little to the potential father).
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Old 02-02-2003, 12:07 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by hippy


As I've said, I don't agree with abortions. I would never have one and I do not condone their use in any situation.

In 1857 the U.S. Supreme Court decided the Dred Scott Decision. By a 7-2 vote it ruled that black people were not "legal persons," that they were the property of the slave owner, who was granted the basic constitutional right to own a slave. Abolitionists protested, to be met with this answer: "We understand you oppose slavery and find it morally offensive. That is your privilege. You don’t have to own a slave if you don’t want to. But, don’t impose your morality on the slave owner. He has the constitutionally protected right to choose to own a slave."

In the famous Lincoln-Douglas debates, Mr. Douglas defended the right to choose. Abraham Lincoln’s answer comes down to us resoundingly clear. His reply was "No one has the right to choose to do what is wrong."

I see way too many parallels to our situation today.
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Old 02-02-2003, 08:09 AM   #37
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I think also that comparison is useless, just like the one with Hitler.

Slaves, if they were asked, could have had the theoretical possibilty of saying "No, I donīt want to be a slave".

Unborn babies canīt.

Anyway, I appreciate your support of life.
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Old 02-02-2003, 09:12 AM   #38
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The comparisons all point to the same conclusions. The only way someone can be comfortable with a position supporting abortion is to deem the unborn child some thing less than a life.
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Old 02-02-2003, 11:43 AM   #39
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This is all staying quite civil and I thank you all for that, but as we are straying a bit beyond the scope of what this particular forum is intended for, I am going to move it to FYM. Please continue to discuss. As always, if anyone has any issues regarding my decision please feel free to contact me via PM or email.

Thanks,
sula
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Old 02-02-2003, 12:21 PM   #40
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
The only way someone can be comfortable with a position supporting abortion is to deem the unborn child some thing less than a life.
Or, the only way you can be comfortable supporting forced pregnancy is to deem the woman carrying the fetus as nothing more than a vessel for a man's seed.
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Old 02-02-2003, 12:59 PM   #41
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
I think also that comparison is useless, just like the one with Hitler.

Slaves, if they were asked, could have had the theoretical possibilty of saying "No, I donīt want to be a slave".
I'm sorry that you can't see the similarities. Someone arbitrarily said, this group of people is lower than me, they shouldn't have the same rights as we do. Britain and America said that and 'owned' slaves for hundreds of years - don't you think that maybe more than one of them said, 'I don't want to be a slave'? I can only imagine the punishment they got if they said that to a white person. Hitler said the Jews (blacks, handicapped, fill in the blank) should be exterminated, simply because they were Jews. People thought this could never happen again, but it was just a few years ago that we were dealing with 'ethnic cleansing' in the Balkans! These atrocities were able to happen because these groups of people were dehumanized. When you dehumanize someone, it's easy to rationalize why they should be exterminated. These millions of preborn humans have been dehumanized - they are blobs, they can't speak, they are not as important as the mother's right to do what she wants. We have reduced their worth to ease our consciences.
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Old 02-02-2003, 01:01 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
This is all staying quite civil and I thank you all for that, but as we are straying a bit beyond the scope of what this particular forum is intended for, I am going to move it to FYM. Please continue to discuss. As always, if anyone has any issues regarding my decision please feel free to contact me via PM or email.

Thanks,
sula
I'm thinking I might merge this thread with the one I have going now...
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Old 02-02-2003, 02:06 PM   #43
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Please don't. That would make it too long to keep track of.
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Old 02-02-2003, 04:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonosloveslave



In 1857 the U.S. Supreme Court decided the Dred Scott Decision. By a 7-2 vote it ruled that black people were not "legal persons," that they were the property of the slave owner, who was granted the basic constitutional right to own a slave. Abolitionists protested, to be met with this answer: "We understand you oppose slavery and find it morally offensive. That is your privilege. You don’t have to own a slave if you don’t want to. But, don’t impose your morality on the slave owner. He has the constitutionally protected right to choose to own a slave."

In the famous Lincoln-Douglas debates, Mr. Douglas defended the right to choose. Abraham Lincoln’s answer comes down to us resoundingly clear. His reply was "No one has the right to choose to do what is wrong."

I see way too many parallels to our situation today.
yes, but remember, Lincoln was the presidential candidate. he became the 14th? president of the United States of America. he was probably more centered on his hardship of walking twenty miles in the snow to school as a young kid in Illinois and didn't really think much about small creatures in the womb of any women, right? The answer probably is in your hands because you can use it so effectively to counter a part of Douglas's well thought out platform on this very sensitive issue. many babies were killed and many died, and many females suffered. but so did the slaves. it's funny that we (the 20 or so states, that is) fought a war over slavery and not over abortion! perhaps, as an interested person of this great era in our history, you would find the time to read Uncle Tom's Cabin, which pretty well describes the situation in the South and how a lot of slaves were brought to freedom in the North. The offspring of plantation owners and and female negroes, i mean African-Americans, were never killed, surprisingly. but they now populate the majority of our large urban centers, even residing in rural and semi-polulated areas.

Did you see the Oprah show where many "white" people actually have African-American ancestry, if they trace it back? the issue is much more complicated than a simle "Sambo" stereotype. And Sambos is a restaurant that we DON'T have in the U.S. anymore, just Denny's and Sizzlers and such.

OK? Come to Jamaica, says the ancient advert for the clear bubbly stuff...

Peace!

edited for grammer
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Old 02-02-2003, 05:27 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


Or, the only way you can be comfortable supporting forced pregnancy is to deem the woman carrying the fetus as nothing more than a vessel for a man's seed.

The great American tradition - you can justify anything if you are a victim.
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