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Old 01-24-2003, 11:33 PM   #16
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I do.

And actually I believe God is involved in every single conception - there are no 'mistakes' or 'accidents'.
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Old 01-25-2003, 01:07 AM   #17
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So, just curious, what's the general consensus out there - is the unborn a member of the human family or not?
yes.
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Old 01-25-2003, 12:05 PM   #18
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I do.

And actually I believe God is involved in every single conception - there are no 'mistakes' or 'accidents'.
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Old 01-25-2003, 04:24 PM   #19
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Yep, thirty years since women haven't had a coat hanger inserted into their vaginas to end a pregnancy. Thirty years that women haven't bled to death in private homes when they had abortions. Thirty years of women controlling their own reproductive systems. Thirty years since women have had the right to make their own decisions about their own bodies. Thirty years where almost every young woman of a certain age brought to the emergency room wasn't the result of an abortion she got at the hands of a person with a piece of wire. Thirty years of access to safe pregnancy termination. Thirty years of men not having a say in what happens to my body.

There is no debate on the need for safe and legal abortion. As one of my favorite sayings goes: Against abortion? Then don't have one.
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Old 01-25-2003, 05:54 PM   #20
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30 years and 43 million dead babies.
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Old 01-25-2003, 06:29 PM   #21
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the unborn are human. If it has a full human genetic code it is human. You'd think that would be plain. I find the notion that a fetus is part of a woman's body quite foolish and highly illogical since the fetus has a different genetic code from his or her mother. I hihgly doubt someone would consider fetus the same as say a surrogate mother, since it would share NONE of the surrogate mother's genetic material. Why then should a different standard be held for a naturally developing fetus?
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Old 01-25-2003, 08:07 PM   #22
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Women will be making the choice anyway, unfortunately, that's an evil of life. I'm concerned that we have the right to make that choice for ourselves, and to make it a safe one.

I think the larger issue here is not the fact that abortions happen. We all accept that fact. At least for me, the issue is not so much that abortions take place. The issue is that both the religious and political conservatives have basically outlawed any discussion or wide dissemination of literature or any information about this.

I believe that education is the key to reducing the abortion rate. When women can openly discuss these issues, without being attacked for their curiousity and without being dismissed and denied information, then, and only then, will the abortion rate drop. In fact, it has been dropping since the early 90s. But the imposition of a few highly placed anti-choice advocates has greatly reduced the available information about abortion and has even deterred the research into this medical procedure which could provide valuable clues to act as a further deterrent. It is *that* kind of tyranny that I have to protest against. And I am concerned that the women who feel an abortion is necessary have the proper support and medical care to remain safe.

For me, it is not about a religious stance. I firmly believe in the life of a developing baby. I would never counsel anyone to undertake such a horrendous procedure. But as a woman I have to protest and declare that my body is my body. The government of my country betrays my fundamental human rights when it tries to regulate what happens to my body.
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Old 01-27-2003, 12:37 PM   #23
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This is such a confusing issue for me. Personally I'm absolutely against abortion, as in I would never choose to have one. However, I'm in a position to make that choice - there are many other women who aren't and that's why I don't think abortion should be made illegal. What about women who are raped and become pregnant? What about women who know their partner will hurt them if they find out they're pregnant? What about young girls whose parents will throw them out of their home if they find out they're pregnant? There are always going to be cases like this - that's why although I personally don't agree with abortion, I think it should always be an option and government doesn't have the right to take away that option.

Instead, I think people who oppose abortion should concentrate on trying to understand why women have abortions and prevent them from becoming necessary (I realise that for many women, they get pregnant not because they're careless etc, but because they used contraception and it failed to work on that occassion.) rather than legislating against them. Maybe we should be thinking about why so many teenage girls get pregnant - perhaps it means that educating them to "just don't have sex!" doesn't work. Maybe instead it would be better to teach them "if you're going to have sex (although we suggest you don't) then please be safe". Maybe we should think about why women need to have abortions after being raped. Maybe as well as advising women not to walk home alone, or not to be alone with a man they don't know well, we should think about advising men that NO means NO in all situations, in all circumstances.

I think I'm just trying to say that instead of simply campaigning to make abortion illegal, perhaps people who are against abortion should think of ways to ensure fewer women want to have abortions, or there are alternatives for those who face an unplanned pregnancy and don't want to have an abortion.
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Old 01-27-2003, 01:49 PM   #24
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hmmm...interesting responses....perhaps I can take this a step further...my thinking is that all these abortions (or the majority of them) would not have occurred had the responsible parties actually BEEN responsible, i.e., taken precautions to prevent an unwanted pregnancy (like...oh, I don't know, how about self-control and abstinence??? Both of course, now seem completely antiquated in this sexually-saturated "if it feels good do it" society). I feel that abortion, too often, is used as birth control, rather than a very last resort because a woman's life is at stake. And don't even get me started on the topic of partial-birth abortion. Talk about heinous. It makes me shudder. We can legislate the heck out of it...it's still WRONG.

An interesting sidenote I heard on the radio recently: PETA is willing to pay a quarter of a million dollars to those who will use human embryos/fetuses to use scientifically for testing, rather than on ANIMALS.

HOW DID WE GET SO UPSIDE DOWN IN OUR VALUES?
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Old 01-27-2003, 08:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Discoteque
..my thinking is that all these abortions (or the majority of them) would not have occurred had the responsible parties actually BEEN responsible, i.e., taken precautions to prevent an unwanted pregnancy (like...oh, I don't know, how about self-control and abstinence???
Actually, I read recently that something like 82% of abortions were pregnancies that occurred in months where contraception was being used. I believe that statistic came from the Alan Guttmacher Institute (sp?), a think tank that deals with reproductive issues.
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Old 01-29-2003, 03:44 PM   #26
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43 million children died, eh? Imagine how many women would have died if they couldnt get safe abortions.
I think there is a difference in thinking abortions are wrong and thinking they are wrong for you.
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Old 01-29-2003, 03:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
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I think there is a difference in thinking abortions are wrong and thinking they are wrong for you.
This principle leaves you in a small box. If everything is relative, when can you speak up and say something is wrong??
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Old 01-29-2003, 07:15 PM   #28
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This principle leaves you in a small box. If everything is relative, when can you speak up and say something is wrong??
I like my small box
Just because something is wrong for me doesnt mean it is wrong for everybody.
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Old 01-30-2003, 08:59 AM   #29
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43 million children died, eh? Imagine how many women would have died if they couldnt get safe abortions.
umm, not to take a side in this thing, but I feel I should point out that you're making a pretty broad assumption there. Unless you are willing to swallow the idea that each of those 43 million abortions were performed to save the life of the mother or that each of those pregnancies would have been attempted to have been terminated in the back alley, it doesn't really stand up. But the bigger issue here is the notion of utilitarianism. Which "death" is more acceptable? How many? If we put both sides on a scale and weighed them, ie. the greater good, would that make it right or wrong? I would tend to think that to reduce human life to a statistic is taking away from the dignity of it. Just a thought.
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Old 01-30-2003, 09:03 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


This principle leaves you in a small box. If everything is relative, when can you speak up and say something is wrong??
I can speak up and say it is wrong for you to impose your theology on my body.
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