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Old 08-01-2004, 09:52 AM   #91
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Originally posted by ThatGuy


Also, Bill Gates is a Democrat.
I heard from several people the reason Clinton wanted to go after him for monopoly charges and break up microsoft was because he was a big donor to the republicans, so Clinton hated him. Don't know if it's true, but sure enough, all his troubles faded away when Clinton got out of office
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Old 08-01-2004, 10:13 AM   #92
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But trust me there are people I respect more than I do any politician, like Bono! I think Bono wants a working relationship with Kerry the same way he does any other politician, Democrat or Republican. Bono is actually proud that he's able to work with politicians of both parties and all political persuasions. He's worked with Bill Frist, Jesse Helms, Mitch McConnell, and other noted Republicans. He has never complained about working with these people. I think it's great that he can work with these people. But, he's also got to work with Democrats to get the votes for aid to Africa. Like it or not, this includes Senator Kerry. The guy's got a vote. He wants a good relationship with him. This doesn't necessarily constitute an endorsement in my opinion. As an Irish citizen he can't even vote in our elections, so why would he be interested in endorsing anyone?
I respect Bono more than any current politician too!
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Old 08-01-2004, 10:32 AM   #93
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Interesting that B man seems to be a 'champagne socialist' considering as an Irish artist he pays no income taxes on his fortune (property taxes maybe, but not income taxes) and has, as far as we know, not given any of his own money to the causes he puts a guilt trip on us to give up the 'price of a cup of coffee' or a 'movie with your girlfriend' but he buys 14 million dollar apt. he rarely uses. Bill Gates has given a very large portion of his personal fortune to Africa, and Bono gives him no credit. Why?

My guesses:

a)he's a republican
b)he's the leader of microsoft, Bono prefers Imac
c) he's afraid people will start pressuring him to give his money too

Sorry!
Actually, Bono's hasn't asked for $. Bono's foundation is trying to help Africa stand on it's own in the future. Private charity isn't enough to bring justice for Africia. Live Aid proved that throwing money at the problem wasn't as effective as was hoped. The solution is to have our governments work towards resolving the problem. Bono will affiliate himself with ALL politicians that work on this issue.

What Bono wants is YOUR VOICE. Please read DATA's website
make sure to watch the videos in the media section.

http://www.data.org/flash.php
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Old 08-01-2004, 10:36 AM   #94
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It looks like Bill Gates will support whomever he likes, regardless of party.


http://www.campaignmoney.com/biography/bill_gates.asp
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Old 08-01-2004, 10:56 AM   #95
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The solution is to have our governments work towards resolving the problem. Bono will affiliate himself with ALL politicians that work on this issue.
But HOW are the 'governments' expected to solve the problem? MONEY!

Thanks for the Gates link too, that is a good list of nopartisan support he gives there. Really, I admire a person much more for judging by the person rather than the party.
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Old 08-01-2004, 11:07 AM   #96
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I'm not sure why you are a fan. Bono and U2 have given both time and money over the years. Many times their concert earnings were given to different causes.

Why would any of us not believe they have liberal leanings. Of course they do and have demonstrated that thru their music such as Seconds.

Africa needs money yes, but it also needs fair trade.
Having a safety net for our citizens is one thing that makes America great and that does take money.
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Old 08-01-2004, 11:45 AM   #97
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But HOW are the 'governments' expected to solve the problem? MONEY!
You insulted Bono by criticizing something that you have no facts to prove and then said that he puts a guilt trip on us to give up the 'price of a cup of coffee' or 'movie with your girlfriend'. I pointed out that he isn't asking for your money, but your VOICE. You are correct that money is involved, but you are incorrect by accusing Bono for asking for money.

Quote:
Originally posted by BluberryPoptart


Interesting that B man seems to be a 'champagne socialist' considering as an Irish artist he pays no income taxes on his fortune (property taxes maybe, but not income taxes) and has, as far as we know, not given any of his own money to the causes he puts a guilt trip on us to give up the 'price of a cup of coffee' or a 'movie with your girlfriend' but he buys 14 million dollar apt. he rarely uses. Bill Gates has given a very large portion of his personal fortune to Africa, and Bono gives him no credit. Why?

This is the quote I responded to defending your inaccurate comment about giving up 'coffee' or 'movies'
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Old 08-01-2004, 12:40 PM   #98
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Sorry, but I have seen him myself, in videos, in so many words, use the 'coffee' and 'movie' comparisons. That's where I got them.

I think what Africa needs most is debt reduction, not free trade, which will hurt people here, and I don't think helping someone should mean hurting yourself. Debt relief, yes. That money is only going to interest, but it could do them a lot of good to keep it. But the MAIN thing Africa needs is education on safe sex to stop the spread of the disease to another generation. Otherwise, all the money in the world will not save a soul
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Old 08-01-2004, 12:43 PM   #99
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Should I be able to refuse to pay taxes because I don't like the way the government chose to spend my money?

In my opinion, yes.
A system of taxation where people only pay for that which they approve of? I can hardly believe no politician has proposed this before! No wait, I can believe it, because such a system would be impossible.

Let's start with the most obvious problem: once you make taxation optional rather than compulsory a large percentage of citizens are going to simply stop paying any taxes. Without taxes we have no public schools, no police force, no roads, no firefighters, no national health service, none of which matters very much since without taxation we have no local or national government to run those services.

Perhaps you think taxation should still be compulsory, but people should be able to refuse to pay for particular government programs which they disagree with. Congratulations, you've just created a taxation system which costs more money than it raises.

I don't want to pay for anything to do with the military, so how much money do I subtract from my taxes? How about if I only want to refuse to pay for the military to be involved in Iraq, I don't mind paying for the armed forces in general, just not for this war. How much do I subtract now? How about if I just don't like the use of depleted uranium, how much should I subtract in order to be sure I'm not paying for that? My neighbour doesn't want to pay for public schools, he thinks they're a waste of money when you consider how many people leave without any qualifications. How much money can he subtract? How about my boss, she has private health insurance so she doesn't see why she should pay for the NHS. How much money should she subtract? How about the anarchist I went to college with, according to him governments are inherently oppressive so he disagrees with every government program. Can he refuse to pay anything in taxation?

Can you even begin to imagine the administrative nightmare that the system you're advocating would be? It would be a system of such complexity that you'd need tens of thousands of employees just to figure out how much each person should be paying in tax. The cost of collecting taxes would be so high that there wouldn't be any money left to pay for the programs they were supposed to fund in the first place.

Here's another problem: how do you decide whether a person is really objecting to a particular government program or is just trying to avoid paying their taxes? How strongly do you have to object to something before you can refuse to pay for it? I'm not wild about the police having the power to impose a curfew on people under the age of 16, should I refuse to pay for that, or can I only refuse to pay for things which I really passionately object to? Should people have to prove that they've always objected to particular program and aren't just trying to avoid paying taxes, or should the government just take their word for it?

While the idea of only paying taxes to fund those programs you approve of might at first glance seem desirable, as soon as you start to think seriously about the practicality of such a system it becomes clear that it's impossible.
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Old 08-01-2004, 01:25 PM   #100
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Originally posted by BluberryPoptart
Sorry, but I have seen him myself, in videos, in so many words, use the 'coffee' and 'movie' comparisons. That's where I got them.

I think what Africa needs most is debt reduction, not free trade, which will hurt people here, and I don't think helping someone should mean hurting yourself. Debt relief, yes. That money is only going to interest, but it could do them a lot of good to keep it. But the MAIN thing Africa needs is education on safe sex to stop the spread of the disease to another generation. Otherwise, all the money in the world will not save a soul
I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to, as I don't remember Bono asking us to give money to a cause directly. I missed it.

If we give Africa debt relief, how are they going to stay out of debt if they aren't allowed to trade fairly? While I agree that we should worry about the welfare of our own country too, I think it is wrong to make the trade rules helpful only to the rich that are already in the game. When poor countries trade and earn a decent living, then they will be able to IMPORT from us and money will be spent back to our country.
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Old 08-01-2004, 01:30 PM   #101
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Wow FizzingWhizzbees. You did a great job explaining the ramifications of a tax system where people only pay for that which they approve of.
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Old 08-01-2004, 02:22 PM   #102
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Old 08-01-2004, 03:49 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluberryPoptart

Interesting that B man seems to be a 'champagne socialist' considering as an Irish artist he pays no income taxes on his fortune (property taxes maybe, but not income taxes) and has, as far as we know, not given any of his own money to the causes he puts a guilt trip on us to give up the 'price of a cup of coffee' or a 'movie with your girlfriend' but he buys 14 million dollar apt. he rarely uses. Bill Gates has given a very large portion of his personal fortune to Africa, and Bono gives him no credit. Why?

My guesses:

a)he's a republican
b)he's the leader of microsoft, Bono prefers Imac
c) he's afraid people will start pressuring him to give his money too

Sorry!
No, Bono is not public about his donations to charity. I think it would be tacky as hell for Bono to mouth off about how much he donated to Charity X. It has been leaked in the press that U2 as a whole have donated millions to Oxfam. This is probably because Oxfam is a well-known worldwide aid agency (I'm a member myself). But the other charities they support are not known in the United States. Does this mean he doesn't support them? Of course not. It just means he hasn't called the newspapers and told them. Celebrities try to keep this sort of news out of the press, and Bono is no exception. He thinks this stuff should be private. He's right.
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Old 08-01-2004, 04:24 PM   #104
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*thinks to himself: I started a thread I'm actually not arguing in*


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Old 08-01-2004, 09:09 PM   #105
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There was also the investigation into the War Child charity, and when the books were opened the thing was virtually bankrolled by U2.

On the 'rights' to using Beautiful Day, the key to it would be in the television broadcast of the song, not in the Democrats using it at a Convention. Their use of it over the PA at the Convention would just involve their agreement with whatever the performing rights association is in the US, not U2 at all. If the song was then picked up by tv microphones, thats one thing and is ok. Similar to the basketball example, the Spurs play it over the PA, thats ok. The tv broadcast and viewers can 'overhear' it, thats ok. But if it is wired straight into the tv audio, then thats different and would require the okay of whoever owns the music (U2 in this case). Like ESPN using it as backing music to the Spurs 1st half highlight real. Does that make sense? I'd say due to the nature of the event, and the televised component, in this case they would have had to get permission. This is NOT the big deal people are making it out to be.

And on Bono's politics, there is absolutely no doubt as to where he leans. He did say though that he'd "have lunch with the devil" if he had to over support for Africa.
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