Italian nun shot dead by Somali gunmen - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-18-2006, 12:27 PM   #76
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Know your enemies.


it's really beginning to look that way.

every time i start to feel more comfortable with the devout, and in the US that's usually Christians, a whole bunch of ethnocentrist bullshit is pulled out by people who are jonesing for a big, bad enemy they're going to use to self-define their own sense of moral and intellectual superiority.

the problem is religion. any religion. shame on anyone for thinking they're the exception rather than the rule.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 12:48 PM   #77
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
Jesus is better than Mohammad!

Christianity is better than Islam!

Christians are better than Muslims!

Nyah-Nyah!






(i can't believe some of the posts in this thread)
Since you seem very upset about many of the posts - mad enough to spit on them - could you please explain your position?

Specifically, I would like to see what your understanding is about Islam and Christianity. Please offer us a summary of what Jesus taught and what Mohammed taught.

Otherwise this just seems childish - like an online "nanny nanny boo boo."
__________________

__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 12:56 PM   #78
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

it's really beginning to look that way.

every time i start to feel more comfortable with the devout, and in the US that's usually Christians, a whole bunch of ethnocentrist bullshit is pulled out by people who are jonesing for a big, bad enemy they're going to use to self-define their own sense of moral and intellectual superiority.
It is quite arrogant to judge someone's motivation for their beliefs. I have two children that I want to grow up in a country without Sharia law - sorry if I feel that freedom and democracy are morally and intellectually superior.

There is nothing "ethnocentric" about condemning what the Koran teaches. Some of the greatest, earliest churches were founded in Turkey.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


the problem is religion. any religion. shame on anyone for thinking they're the exception rather than the rule.
So all religion is evil? Is that what you’re saying? If so, please explain how you have come to this conclusion – since there is a quite a bit of differences between all of them.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 12:58 PM   #79
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Since you seem very upset about many of the posts - mad enough to spit on them - could you please explain your position?

Specifically, I would like to see what your understanding is about Islam and Christianity. Please offer us a summary of what Jesus taught and what Mohammed taught.

Otherwise this just seems childish - like an online "nanny nanny boo boo."


nah, if i were to "offer a summary" to the board, anything that might cast Jesus in a less than positive light would be inaccurate, and anything that might possibly cast Islam in a positive light would be biased.

what's going on is that a few people on this board obviously feel very threatened by the very legitimate complaints about conservative Christianity as practiced in the US and how it is often manifested in American politics, so they are turning around and pointing at radical Islam and saying, in effect, "see, now THAT'S bad."

it's all crap. if you need to justify your religon to yoruself through the denigration of another, you're free to do so.

and i'm free to mock your "arguments" or "discussion" because there's really very little of that going on in here, with the exception of Yolland's posts which have so effectively deflated the little balloons of self-righteousness that have been huffed and puffed into with so much hot air.

ultimately, Christianity and Islam are really not very different -- they are RELIGIONS. they're attempts to explain the unexplainable, to try to know what cannot be known, and who's imaginary friend is better.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 01:04 PM   #80
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


It is quite arrogant to judge someone's motivation for their beliefs. I have two children that I want to grow up in a country without Sharia law - sorry if I feel that freedom and democracy are morally and intellectually superior.



yes, your children are just a step away from living in Talibanized Afghanistan.

you know i've gone to great lengths to explain, that, yes, i do think the American way of life (or Western way of life) is, at it's core, better than a theocracy (though i'm not willing to torture to prove that point), however it's such a straw man to think that the United States is anywhere near having it's way of life converted to Sharia law.

in the US, i have way, way, way more to fear from the American Taliban than i do from the actual Taliban. i'm far more likely to get my head bashed in by some thug than i am to be attacked by a terrorist.



[q]There is nothing "ethnocentric" about condemning what the Koran teaches. Some of the greatest, earliest churches were founded in Turkey.[/q]

are you kidding me?

fine, i condemn the entire bible. it's a load of crap. you're foolish to believe it.

(how does that feel?)



Quote:
So all religion is evil? Is that what you’re saying? If so, please explain how you have come to this conclusion – since there is a quite a bit of differences between all of them.

no, i said all religion is bad, or more accurately, has the potential for badness. it posits access to the infinite, to the almighty, and because of this, it is greatest motivator for violence and destruction on the face of the earth.

i do think we'd be better off without it these days. you're all so willing to die for it -- and i include the radical islamists in this -- and you're so hungry for an enemy, for people to fight, for people to denigrate, for that self-defining evil, shadowy, Other.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 01:36 PM   #81
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

yes, your children are just a step away from living in Talibanized Afghanistan.

I am not one to wait until it is too late.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

however it's such a straw man to think that the United States is anywhere near having it's way of life converted to Sharia law.
How unfortunate for all those souls who just happen to be born outside our umbrella of protection. So I guess if you are born in the Middle East – too bad for you.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


in the US, i have way, way, way more to fear from the American Taliban than i do from the actual Taliban. i'm far more likely to get my head bashed in by some thug than i am to be attacked by a terrorist.

Yeah, there is so many young men coming out of Bible Studies and beating the crap out of gays. The ones who usually do this sort of thing are more likely to be in the neo-Nazi camp. No mainstream Christian church that I am aware of is teaching violence toward gays


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



[q]There is nothing "ethnocentric" about condemning what the Koran teaches. Some of the greatest, earliest churches were founded in Turkey.[/q]

are you kidding me?

fine, i condemn the entire bible. it's a load of crap. you're foolish to believe it.

(how does that feel?)
Maybe you are misunderstanding what ethnocentrism is: (from wikipedia) – “Ethnocentrism often entails the belief that one's own race or ethnic group is the most important and/or that some or all aspects of its culture are superior to those of other groups”

I don’t think Islam is a race problem; it is an ideological/theological one.


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


no, i said all religion is bad, or more accurately, has the potential for badness. it posits access to the infinite, to the almighty, and because of this, it is greatest motivator for violence and destruction on the face of the earth.

Atheists can also have the same possibilities and motivations (i.e. communism)


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


i do think we'd be better off without it these days. you're all so willing to die for it -- and i include the radical islamists in this -- and you're so hungry for an enemy, for people to fight, for people to denigrate, for that self-defining evil, shadowy, Other.
Hungry for an enemy? Just because people here are defining their enemy – doesn’t mean they are hungry for one.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:20 PM   #82
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
[B]

I am not one to wait until it is too late.

then start voting Democratic -- the Republicans are only making things worse. the lethality of the individual Islamist cannot be underestimated, but the scope of the threat and the direct danger it poses to the individual American has been wildly exaggerated.

do you honestly think that we're going to have a Red Dawn with Islamists jumping out of the sky and enslaving you?

the truth of the matter is this: the lives that are really at stake are not our own, but those of the everday citizens of the Middle East. if push came to shove, there is no question that superior Western technology could put an end to things very quickly, and at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives. it's them we should be fighting for, not paranoid delusions and self-aggrandizing notions of a particular threat to ourselves.

besides, AEON, they're coming after me first.



[q]How unfortunate for all those souls who just happen to be born outside our umbrella of protection. So I guess if you are born in the Middle East – too bad for you.[/q]

and you think that the GWOT, as you understand it, protecting your children from the Sharia law that's just waiting to pounce the moment you let your guard down, is actrually helping people in the Middle East?



[q]Yeah, there is so many young men coming out of Bible Studies and beating the crap out of gays. The ones who usually do this sort of thing are more likely to be in the neo-Nazi camp. No mainstream Christian church that I am aware of is teaching violence toward gays[/q]

you see -- this is all i'm asking you to do in regards to Islam: extend to it the same respect and benefit of the doubt that you demand for Christianity. i totally agree with you; it is not mainstream Christianity to kill gay people. but the reason why Christianity in this country is relatively healthy, especially in comparison to Islam in the Middle East, has nothing to do with any teachings inherent to either religion, and everything to do with the system of government we have in the US versus those in the Middle East. you can thank the US Constitution for the health of Christianity. you can thank the separation of chruch and state for the health of Christianity. you can thank the anathema that is theocracy for the health of Christianity.



[q]Maybe you are misunderstanding what ethnocentrism is: (from wikipedia) – “Ethnocentrism often entails the belief that one's own race or ethnic group is the most important and/or that some or all aspects of its culture are superior to those of other groups”

I don’t think Islam is a race problem; it is an ideological/theological one.[/q]


religion is as much a product of society as anything else; under the umbrella of ethnocentrism i include religion, and more often than not, religion is itself "race-ed" -- it's still brown vs. white, the West vs. the East, and that's how it's being pitched to the masses by certain elements in the Republican Party.




[q]Atheists can also have the same possibilities and motivations (i.e. communism)[/q]

it's nothing to do with atheism and everything to do with understanding the seductive power of religion and doing whatever you can to resist that. atheism is still thinking within the box of religion, whereas agnosticism, or secular humanism, simply understands religon as just another thought system. ultimately, i cannot say that your faith is "wrong" any more than you can say that your faith is "right" so we can agree that we cannot "know," and we'll never kill each other over it.




Quote:
Hungry for an enemy? Just because people here are defining their enemy – doesn’t mean they are hungry for one.
everything i've seen in these threads as dripped with thirst for a new bad guy, a new USSR, a new boogeyman.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:27 PM   #83
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



then start voting Democratic -- the Republicans are only making things worse.
Does this mean if you were living in the times of when Lincoln was president you would not vote for him because all republicans are evil as you put it but not in context.
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:29 PM   #84
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24


Does this mean if you were living in the times of when Lincoln was president you would not vote for him because all republicans are evil as you put it but not in context.


no.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:32 PM   #85
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:49 AM
But you stated republicans ruin everything which imply's there bad
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:34 PM   #86
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
But you stated republicans ruin everything which imply's there bad


i stated that the Republican Party is making things worse in the Middle East and not better.

i have no idea how you got back to Lincoln.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:37 PM   #87
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:49 AM
I got to lincoln cause you said the republicans make things worse. I wanted to use it as an analogy.
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:44 PM   #88
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




i stated that the Republican Party is making things worse in the Middle East and not better.

i have no idea how you got back to Lincoln.
One could definitely argue that the current terrorist organizations gained most of their power and influence during the Clinton Administration.

One could go even further that his policies of retreat and avoidance empowered and emboldened these organizations.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:50 PM   #89
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:49 AM
Well Technically it started with Jimmy Carter ( MR. Noble Peace Prize) ha
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:51 PM   #90
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


One could definitely argue that the current terrorist organizations gained most of their power and influence during the Clinton Administration.

One could go even further that his policies of retreat and avoidance empowered and emboldened these organizations.


and one could look at the near-chaos situations we have in Iraq and Afghanistan and the greater influence Iran now has across the Middle East and the loss of American moral authority and the immense loss of international respect, especially in the eyes of our allies, that is all the result of specific Bush administration policies.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com