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Old 07-18-2008, 02:28 AM   #16
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Why do you completely over look and dismiss Bill Clinton who was over one year younger than Obama. Did he not earn it?
Deep, deep, deep. . .I don't overlook or dismiss Bill Clinton. He most certainly earned it. I'm okay with Bill. . . it's all good.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:31 AM   #17
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some of the Dem voters and independents who will stay home or vote McCain BECAUSE HE'S BLACK. And as we all know, all it takes is "some"--not even a majority.
Does Obama need 300 advisers because he is BLACK?

or is it because of his lack of experience?


Cast of hundreds advises Obama on foreign policy - International Herald Tribune ( I got this from Drudge, so I know it is true. )
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:34 AM   #18
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Does Obama need 300 advisers because he is BLACK?

or is it because of his lack of experience?


Cast of hundreds advises Obama on foreign policy - International Herald Tribune ( I got this from Drudge, so I know it is true. )

I don't know but I must go swim in my ocean paradise now so I will get back to you later.

Take care, my friend.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:46 AM   #19
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We really do not know whether this is a Democratic year or not yet, regardless of what polls say. Polls have been remarkably wrong many times in the past, Dewey and Truman, 2004 Iowa Dem Primary, 2008 NH Dem primary to name just top of my head ones. It could very well be that despite not being a remarkable Congress or putting up a remarkable Presidential candidate like Biden or Richardson, the Democrats pick up 3 Senate seats and 10 house seats while Obama beats McCain. In fact, most people are betting on this scenario exactly. Yes, the polls now would be different w/ a more experienced white candidate without an exotic background, that is a fact. However, to judge this as not a Democratic yr when it should be is a bit premature. Obama has a legitimate shot at winning states like Virginia, Georgia, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico, states that Republicans have been very strong in recently. I only worry about Florida because of the strong Hillary Democrats, the elderly and the Jews down there not trusting Obama. However, everything I have seen suggests to me that, as someone else mentioned already, the elderly more than anyone else view McCain's age as a liability. My grandparents are older than him and both cringe when they see him get up to walk. Go figure. Ultimately, we will have a much better understanding of this some time in September.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:55 AM   #20
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Have a good swim - my vote is still up for grabs

If Hillary were the nominee
there would be ignorant people making remarks like
"I will not vote for her because she is a woman."

and many of her supporters would be saying if Hillary is not elected
it is only because of sexism.

I do believe that if many of these same people, would have voted for Margaret Thatcher, if given the chance

So are they really not voting for Hillary because she is a woman?

Or are they just making an ignorant statement ?

and yes, I believe they may very well be sexist



I give this example, because I have had people tell me they would not vote for Obama in a way that suggested it was about race.

and then I asked them if they would have voted for Colin Powell, if they were given the chance? Many of them say yes.
could these people have some racist beliefs, yes

But that would not stop them from voting for an "acceptable" candidate of color

Obama's situation got more complicated because of his close association with Reverend Wright and even that Catholic Priest that made inflammatory statements that have cause some to put an extreme label on Obama.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:22 AM   #21
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i think a lot of people won't vote for Obama because he's black, but they'll never acknowledge that, not even to themselves.

so they search around for reasons not to vote for him that seem detached from race, and put him under a level of scrutiny that they never would another candidate,

so that when they don't vote for him because he's black,

they can say they didn't vote for him not because he's black.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:34 AM   #22
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Since not voting Obama is now evidence of crypto-racism this election has well and truly jumped the shark.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:42 AM   #23
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Since not voting Obama is now evidence of crypto-racism this election has well and truly jumped the shark.


that's a bit hysterical.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:07 PM   #24
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they can say they didn't vote for him not because he's black.
I will admit there are hard core racists that would not vote for any black person ever.

As there are hard core sexists that would not vote for any woman, ever.



Will you admit that there is a good percentage of people that are not voting for Obama, that would have voted for Colin Powell?
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:21 PM   #25
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Will you admit that there is a good percentage of people that are not voting for Obama, that would have voted for Colin Powell?

yes, some, but i also think that the same thing would apply -- people would talk themselves into thinking they're voting against the black candidate (or the female candidate) for a variety of reasons other than the race (or gender) of said candidate, but these are rationalizations to live with the racist/sexist impulse that i don't think is even necessarily all that conscious.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:23 PM   #26
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You'd also have a good number of people who would/will vote for Obama but would not vote for Colin Powell if given that choice.

Especially today, Powell is really damaged goods. Pity for him.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:30 PM   #27
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You'd also have a good number of people who would/will vote for Obama but would not vote for Colin Powell if given that choice.

Especially today, Powell is really damaged goods. Pity for him.


thinking about it, sounds like another rationalization -- "see, i'd vote for Colin Powell, just not this Obama fella" ...
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:39 PM   #28
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You'd also have a good number of people who would/will vote for Obama but would not vote for Colin Powell if given that choice.
and of course those Obama voters that would not vote for Powell are really just racists,
all this other talk , Powell - damaged goods (or let's say these are Obama supporters that would not have voted for Powell in the 90s, because they would have thought he was to Military) just excuses Obama supporters are using to hide their racism.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:42 PM   #29
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thinking about it, sounds like another rationalization -- "see, i'd vote for Colin Powell, just not this Obama fella" ...
my friend

your thinking here is not rational


it seems the only way a person is not racist, by your thinking,
is that they must vote for the black person?
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:53 PM   #30
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my friend

your thinking here is not rational


it seems the only way a person is not racist, by your thinking,
is that they must vote for the black person?


totally rational, just complex.

as race is.

i'm not offering an answer. i'm not saying that if you don't vote for Obama you're a racist, nor am i saying that if you vote for Obama you're voting out of white guilt.

what i am saying is that race shades our perceptions, sometimes imperceptibly.

and if you're wondering, i think gender is even more complex.
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