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Old 04-20-2007, 11:11 PM   #226
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Wouldn't part of the point of banning guns be to show that we have a government that wants to crack down on gun violence? Wasn't the only point of guns in the first place to defend oneself against British troops? If one, single, solitary, would-be murder due to guns does not occur because they are illegal and harder to obtain, is it not then doing its job? (And this certainly isn't to say that it couldn't save more.) I think the right to bear arms in 2007 just doesn't make sense.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:37 PM   #227
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Miss America 1944 takes a different kind of beauty shot


Story Highlights
• Venus Ramey, 82, confronted man on her farm in south-central Kentucky
• She shot out his tires to hold him for police, who charged man with trespassing
• In 1944, beauty queen won pageant with singing, dancing, comedic talents

WAYNESBURG, Kentucky (AP) -- Miss America 1944 has a talent that probably has never appeared on a beauty pageant stage: She fired a handgun to shoot out a vehicle's tires and stop an intruder.

Venus Ramey, 82, confronted a man on her farm in south-central Kentucky last week after she saw her dog run into a storage building where thieves had previously made off with old farm equipment.

Ramey said the man told her he would leave. "I said, 'Oh, no you won't,' and I shot their tires so they couldn't leave," Ramey said.

She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun.

"I didn't even think twice. I just went and did it," she said. "If they'd even dared come close to me, they'd be 6 feet under by now."

Ramey then flagged down a passing motorist, who called 911.

Curtis Parrish of Ohio was charged with misdemeanor trespassing, Deputy Dan Gilliam said. The man's hometown wasn't immediately available. Three other people were questioned but were not arrested.

After winning the pageant with her singing, dancing and comedic talents, Ramey sold war bonds and her picture was adorned on a B-17 bomber that flew missions over Germany in World War II, according to the Miss America Web site.

Ramey lived in Cincinnati for several years and was instrumental in helping rejuvenate Over-the-Rhine historic buildings. She returned to Kentucky in 1990 to live on her farm.

"I'm trying to live a quiet, peaceful life and stay out of trouble, and all it is, is one thing after another," she said.
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Old 04-21-2007, 12:06 AM   #228
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What was the name of that Tom Cruise thought police movie in which they arrested people before they committed the crime?

The posts in here remind me of that.
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Old 04-21-2007, 12:11 AM   #229
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minority report
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Old 04-21-2007, 12:54 AM   #230
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Originally posted by Irvine511
what do the gun crime statistics of the UK and Australia tell us?
Well, given the common consensus is that if someone wants to get a gun and kill people, they will do so, whether guns are legally available or not, their is only 1 conclusion.

People in the UK and Australia simply have a lower desire to kill one another than Americans.

The fact handguns are illegal in these countries has no bearing on the gun statistics: remeber, if a criminal wants to get a gun, he'll do so, whether through legal or illegal means. If the desire is there, the black market will provide. Simple economics.

Criminals will find a way. They can't be stopped.
It's not even worth the effort to try and stop them. They're invincible.
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Old 04-21-2007, 05:18 AM   #231
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A lot of this really is so incomprehensible...I don't think anyone is even considering an outright ban on guns right now...just stronger gun control laws, a rigorous mental health check, and police check and then a substantial waiting period of a few months, nationwide.

That alone would likely cut down gun related crime, those controls are just common sense, the laxness of the laws in some states seems to border on stupidity. It would take a long, long time to phase guns out completely in the states, hence it is just too impractical for an outright ban.
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:18 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrau1


Well, given the common consensus is that if someone wants to get a gun and kill people, they will do so, whether guns are legally available or not, their is only 1 conclusion.

People in the UK and Australia simply have a lower desire to kill one another than Americans.

The fact handguns are illegal in these countries has no bearing on the gun statistics: remeber, if a criminal wants to get a gun, he'll do so, whether through legal or illegal means. If the desire is there, the black market will provide. Simple economics.

Criminals will find a way. They can't be stopped.
It's not even worth the effort to try and stop them. They're invincible.
Well cultural differences may go some way towards explaining differing levels of crime rates - Switzerland for example as a high level of gun ownership but a low crime rate, but I don't agree that those hell bent on going on a killing spree will always find a way to get guns whether they're legal or not.

It stands to reason that in a society where guns are illegal it is much much more difficult to get your hands on one and most people wouldn't know where to start. Criminals may and do find a way on the black market if they have the right contacts but I think as maycocksean said it earlier, someone who's mentally deranged would find it pretty difficult. The UK has had a fair number of nutcases in recent years who've killed a number of complete strangers but none have used guns - they've only had access to knives, axes etc but the death toll would have been far higher if they had used guns as well.

I suppose that one of the problems in the US though is that even if tighter gun controls were put in force, because there are so many guns already in circulation that it would still be relatively easy for those wanting to get their hands on one to do so.
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:36 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
What was the name of that Tom Cruise thought police movie in which they arrested people before they committed the crime?

The posts in here remind me of that.
How so?
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:39 AM   #234
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Originally posted by Snowlock


I love the talk of the magical innocents who oops tripped and fell and shot a store clerk in the face while emptying the cash register. I don't think I could equate and armed robber as a "stupid teen".
How about addressing the most difficult of the scenarios on anitram's list, rather than the easiest one to reframe as yet another criminal.
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:42 AM   #235
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I'm personally not advocating an outright ban on guns (though I don't think that would be a bad thing). I'd be happy with just stricter gun control laws. That should be acceptable to most Americans I would imagine.
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Old 04-21-2007, 09:56 AM   #236
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Quote:
Originally posted by LJT
A lot of this really is so incomprehensible...I don't think anyone is even considering an outright ban on guns right now...just stronger gun control laws, a rigorous mental health check, and police check and then a substantial waiting period of a few months, nationwide.

I would accept this. Especially the mental health check. We should probably run the same test before allowing people into the voting booth.





....just kidding ....sort of...
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Old 04-21-2007, 10:39 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
What was the name of that Tom Cruise thought police movie in which they arrested people before they committed the crime?

The posts in here remind me of that.
Entirely different things Dread, entirely different; anybody with more than two functioning brain cells understands that the second somebody is able to own a gun they are potential killers, and that potential is too much of a risk so one way or another it has to be neutralised.
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Old 04-21-2007, 10:43 AM   #238
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Entirely different things Dread, entirely different; anybody with more than two functioning brain cells understands that the second somebody is able to own a gun they are potential killers, and that potential is too much of a risk so one way or another it has to be neutralised.

I guess I am short two!
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Old 04-21-2007, 10:45 AM   #239
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Exactly, that's why this thread is cracking me up. I mean just look at the reason this thread was started.

2 legal guns bought by a law-abiding citizen.
yet, from watching the news last night I was under the impression that he should not have been allowed to buy the gun once the court had made its ruling on him two years ago. Somehow, he was able to.
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Old 04-21-2007, 12:41 PM   #240
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nevermind
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