It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution..... - Page 13 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-20-2007, 04:25 PM   #181
Refugee
 
Snowlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,211
Local Time: 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zootlesque


And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that. - Eddie Izzard




So that makes it okay...

Wow. Eddie Izzard. Impressive.

"So that makes it okay"

Yes that's exactly what I am saying. As long as you have a gun, it is okay to murder people who piss you off. How inciteful of you to come to the conclusion I was getting at.
__________________

__________________
Snowlock is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:25 PM   #182
ONE
love, blood, life
 
MrBrau1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Verplexed in Vermont
Posts: 10,436
Local Time: 09:09 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock


Unless you're one of the 154........................
so the 9000 dead are just a tax to subsidize the 154?
__________________

__________________
"If you needed my autograph, I'd give it to you." Bob Dylan
MrBrau1 is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:26 PM   #183
Refugee
 
Snowlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,211
Local Time: 08:09 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrau1


so the 9000 dead are just a tax to subsidize the 154?
I guess you'd have to ask the 154 and their families. I'm not ready to make that determination.
__________________
Snowlock is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:36 PM   #184
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Zoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: the great beyond
Posts: 36,802
Local Time: 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock
Wow. Eddie Izzard. Impressive.

"So that makes it okay"

Yes that's exactly what I am saying. As long as you have a gun, it is okay to murder people who piss you off. How inciteful of you to come to the conclusion I was getting at.
No need to be nasty and sarcastic. I only said what I inferred out of your comments. Eddie is just a stand up comedian, I know. But he is right! even though he obviously wasn't seriously arguing against guns. Guns do kill people! They make it a lot easier to finish somebody off in seconds as opposed to worrying about effective stabbing techniques or strangling moves and what not. Just point the pistol and shoot! And then the good people have to own guns to protect themselves from the bad people. It's a cycle. Just completely take guns away from society! Only have the police and other law enforcement authorities have access.. is what I'm saying.
__________________
Zoots is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:39 PM   #185
Refugee
 
Snowlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,211
Local Time: 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zootlesque


No need to be nasty and sarcastic. I only said what I inferred out of your comments. Eddie is just a stand up comedian, I know. But he is right! even though he obviously wasn't seriously arguing against guns. Guns do kill people! They make it a lot easier to finish somebody off in seconds as opposed to worrying about effective stabbing techniques or strangling moves and what not. Just point the pistol and shoot! And then the good people have to own guns to protect themselves from the bad people. It's a cycle. Just completely take guns away from society! Only have the police and other law enforcement authorities have access.. is what I'm saying.
I took what you said as nasty because you edited my post to fit your comments. I said in the specific instance of domestic violence that most likely the murderer would be a killer anyway whether there was a gun or not. You made the face as if to say I was condoning gun violence which is asinine.

And just like it was first impossible to prohibit alchohol and after that drugs, it'd be impossible to prohibit guns. Some guns are already illegal, and some bullets too; and we can't even stop those.
__________________
Snowlock is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:43 PM   #186
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 12:09 PM
And if the day ever came that law enforcement and the military were used to supress the population what then?

And that gets to the the root of it; if you take away people right to bear arms then there it is that much easier for a tyrannical regime to tread on the rights of it's population without concequence. Gun ownership is a liberty, like many liberties it is double edged and there are negative concequences when people are irresponsible but the security that is gained by removing weapons from the hands of law abiding citizens is at the expense of liberty and it will not prevent criminals from getting illegal weapons (as there are other channels for them to be obtained).

It seems Americans appreciate their right to bear arms, I only hope that in future it is matched by equally fervent belief in the right to free speech (against government and religious institutions) and religious freedom (no persecution on promotion of any religious beliefs).
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:46 PM   #187
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Zoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: the great beyond
Posts: 36,802
Local Time: 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock
I took what you said as nasty because you edited my post to fit your comments. I said in the specific instance of domestic violence that most likely the murder would be a killer anyway whether there was a gun or not. You made the face as if to say I was condoning gun violence which is asinine.
Oh okay. No I didn't think you meant that! Sorry if my edit gave the wrong impression.

Yes, the killer wants to kill primarily... and may do it with anything, not necessarily a gun. But the whole fact that guns make it so much easier to do the job is I think scary. I don't have any numbers to back it up but I'm sure guns help in increasing murder numbers just for that one reason!
__________________
Zoots is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:46 PM   #188
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,640
Local Time: 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock

And just like it was first impossible to prohibit alchohol and after that drugs, it'd be impossible to prohibit guns. Some guns are already illegal, and some bullets too; and we can't even stop those.
Besides Hollywood Movies, how often do you see these banned weapons?

This isn't like alcohol or drugs.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:48 PM   #189
Refugee
 
Snowlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,211
Local Time: 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
And if the day ever came that law enforcement and the military were used to supress the population what then?

And that gets to the the root of it; if you take away people right to bear arms then there it is that much easier for a tyrannical regime to tread on the rights of it's population without concequence. Gun ownership is a liberty, like many liberties it is double edged and there are negative concequences when people are irresponsible but the security that is gained by removing weapons from the hands of law abiding citizens is at the expense of liberty and it will not prevent criminals from getting illegal weapons (as there are other channels for them to be obtained).
I agree with you on the part about guns being a liberty that's a double edged sword. I wish though that people who think like me, or somewhat like me, would drop the reasoning of guns being used to defend against tyrannical governments. If all of the sudden Hilary seized the US by force and imposed a fascist state, us freedom fighters with hand guns would be no better off than those without. You can't stop a tank with a handgun.
__________________
Snowlock is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:50 PM   #190
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,640
Local Time: 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
And if the day ever came that law enforcement and the military were used to supress the population what then?

This really is the weakest of gun control arguments. This was an issue when the military and the citizens all had the same technology, but this is no longer true.

How is my handgun going to stand up against the police, or military weaponry?

Hi, I'm the military I have a tank and a rocket launcher, how about you? Um, I have a .22 and Honda civic.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:53 PM   #191
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 06:09 PM
Quote:
And if the day ever came that law enforcement and the military were used to supress the population what then?
IEDs plus yankee ingenuity

nuff said



plus, we have reenactors
all over practicing and just waiting for the day
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:53 PM   #192
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,640
Local Time: 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock


If all of the sudden Hilary seized the US by force and imposed a fascist state, us freedom fighters with hand guns would be no better off than those without.
I'm sorry, but there's something funny about Hillary running a martial law fascist state.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:55 PM   #193
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock
You've kind of argued the other point here. If you can teach your kid not to swallow bottles of pills, drink bleach or push others down the stairs or get drunk and driver their car into a tree when they're 16 or any number of things that parents teach their children not to do, you can teach them not to handle the gun. Or teach them to handle the gun correctly.


i might have not expressed my point in the best way -- i was trying to say that you can teach children gun responsibility, just like you can tell them not to drive drunk or swallow bleach, but many of them are going to do it anyway no matter how good the parenting. it's the presence of the gun in the household that leads to accidents, or an angry, unstable child resorting to using the gun to, say, blow away a sibling who's pissing him off.

or, should you get a suicidal teen, they can blow their brains out.

you can save someone who's slit a wrist or swallowed some Tylenol and followed it with a fifth of vodka, but you can't put someone's brains back in.


[q]Crap, irving, looks like we're gonna get into it here :-) and I'm gonna need to combine threads.[/q]

i think it's been very respectful.


[q]Domestic incidents are exactly the type of incident that the statement "guns don't kill people, people kill people" was made for. If the gun wasn't around in the case of a domestic incident, most definately a knife (or whatever) would be used. These are cases were the killer isn't driven to use a gun on someone; they're driven to kill. Gun's just the quickest way.[/q]

but that's why guns are so dangerous. they are so quick, and so effective, that the heat-of-the-moment impulses can result in death. you're going to have a much better chance of surviving a stabbing, or a beating, than of getting shot. 2/3rds of all spousal murders are done with guns. it's not so much that people kill people but that people use guns to kill people, and guns make people much, much, much better at killing people.


Quote:
Yes it is. But basic economics says that the supply will always rise to fill the demand. Criminals or those that desire to be criminals will always be able to get guns so long as guns are made. Or if they can't will just use something else that is legal.

i agree, in theory, but up until the moment he entered the campus with the guns in tow, Cho did nothing illegal. had it been much harder to acquire guns, had -- and i think this is totally rational -- his time in a hospital ward been noted on his permanent record and disqualified him from being able to purchase a gun, he would have had a much tougher time getting his weapons.

i think that banning guns won't stop legitimate criminals -- the gangs, the Tony Sopranos of the world -- but i think it would do much to reduce the number of domestics that result in muder.

what do the gun crime statistics of the UK and Australia tell us?
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:56 PM   #194
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,615
Local Time: 03:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock



And just like it was first impossible to prohibit alchohol and after that drugs, it'd be impossible to prohibit guns. Some guns are already illegal, and some bullets too; and we can't even stop those.
That's a great logic, isn't it.
Because, murder is illegal, speeding is, robbery and theft is, but it still occurs.
You can't prohibit it, it still occurs, so why not legalizing it?
__________________
Vincent Vega is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:57 PM   #195
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep


IEDs plus yankee ingenuity

nuff said


ouch.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com