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Old 04-20-2007, 04:00 PM   #166
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


The only thing these numbers show me that if handguns were made illegal to own - then there would be 9154 murders and zero justifiable homicides.


Also, who knows how many murders don't happen because the would be killer doesn't know if the house he wants to break into is armed or not.


so every single person who killed someone with a handgun would have been able to illegally obtain a handgun and carry out the murder?

most handgun murders are far from premeditated.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:02 PM   #167
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


The only thing these numbers show me that if handguns were made illegal to own - then there would be 9154 murders and zero justifiable homicides.


Also, who knows how many murders don't happen because the would be killer doesn't know if the house he wants to break into is armed or not.
I love how you can justify a change in statistics with the second sentence but can't with the first.

How many of those 9154 were killed with a legal gun, a lot more than you think.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:03 PM   #168
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




i can accept the fact that if a student had a gun, they could have stopped Cho dead. but the odds of that happening would require a nearly fully armed citizenry, and that would have disasterous consequences.

and that's really what's baffling. that's a Wild Wild West mentality for you.





Mandy's in the backroom handing out valium sheriff's on the airwaves talking to the D.J.'s forty seven heartbeats beating like a drum got to live it up live it up Ronnie's got a new gun
I agree not everyone should be walking around with guns around their waist. But I am supportive of those with a police or military with a very clean track record applying for the right to carry a concealed weapon.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:05 PM   #169
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




so every single person who killed someone with a handgun would have been able to illegally obtain a handgun and carry out the murder?

most handgun murders are far from premeditated.
I think that's a misnomer. Agreed that most handgun murders are not premeditated. But most handgun murders are carried out by people who are predisposed to murder or who are already living violent lifestyles or lifestyles surrounded by violence.

Very few are accidents.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:06 PM   #170
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

But I am supportive of those with a police or military with a very clean track record applying for the right to carry a concealed weapon.


i cautiously agree with you on this, though i'm more inclined to allow police officers than anyone who's ever served to have one.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:07 PM   #171
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

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Originally posted by MrBrau1


That pretty much settles it.

A 58:1 ratio.

Those numbers can't be argued against.
Unless you're one of the 154........................
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:07 PM   #172
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


The only thing these numbers show me that if handguns were made illegal to own - then there would be 9154 murders and zero justifiable homicides.


Also, who knows how many murders don't happen because the would be killer doesn't know if the house he wants to break into is armed or not.

That probably explains the anarchy in every other country, and the huge numbers of people getting shot in other countries.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:08 PM   #173
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock


I think that's a misnomer. Agreed that most handgun murders are not premeditated. But most handgun murders are carried out by people who are predisposed to murder or who are already living violent lifestyles or lifestyles surrounded by violence.

Very few are accidents.


when you say accident, i think you mean a child shooting his friend while they were playing around. while it does happen, i agree that it is a small number compared to the 9,000 or whatever.

however, i will disagree with your assessment of the people who murder with handguns. a large number of these murders result from domestic disputes that escalate, often in the heat of the moment.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:09 PM   #174
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




i can accept the fact that if a student had a gun, they could have stopped Cho dead. but the odds of that happening would require a nearly fully armed citizenry, and that would have disasterous consequences.

and that's really what's baffling. that's a Wild Wild West mentality for you.

Yep, the U.S should bring back hip holsters so we can all relive the good ole days, YEEHAAAWW!!!! Everyone armed to the teeth walking down the street proudly displaying their 9mm or .22 Caliber handguns. Then they could pimp em out with bling and shiny things and have designer bullets. Player pianos, whorehouses, and long handlebar mustaches....umm, good times. No one would fuck with anyone cause everybody has guns. This could open up a whole new industry. Guns which could have dual uses like as a cellphone too. Would you mess with a dude holding a gun to his head and talking to it?
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:10 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




and most kids don't swallow bottles of pills, or drink bleach, or push others down the stairs, or get drunk and drive their car into a tree when they're 16, or any number of things that parents teach their children not to do.

why add another dimension of danger to a household? why keep a tool around who's only function is to kill someone else? there's no reason for the existence of a gun beyond death.
You've kind of argued the other point here. If you can teach your kid not to swallow bottles of pills, drink bleach or push others down the stairs or get drunk and driver their car into a tree when they're 16 or any number of things that parents teach their children not to do, you can teach them not to handle the gun. Or teach them to handle the gun correctly.

Crap, irving, looks like we're gonna get into it here :-) and I'm gonna need to combine threads.

Domestic incidents are exactly the type of incident that the statement "guns don't kill people, people kill people" was made for. If the gun wasn't around in the case of a domestic incident, most definately a knife (or whatever) would be used. These are cases were the killer isn't driven to use a gun on someone; they're driven to kill. Gun's just the quickest way.

Regarding prohibition you say: "i guess i think that guns and pot are different things and it's far easier to transport an ounce than to transport a bunch of handguns. and i think the demand for pot is way, way higher than for handguns."

Yes it is. But basic economics says that the supply will always rise to fill the demand. Criminals or those that desire to be criminals will always be able to get guns so long as guns are made. Or if they can't will just use something else that is legal.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:12 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But do they feel safer with a gun?

I'll let the women answer that one for you...

In theory you may be right...

Woman here.

Now I only speak for myself, my female relatives, and my female close friends, but with certainty NONE of us feel "safer" with our husbands around. Wait, most of us don't even HAVE husbands.

Most women feel safe in their home, period. I can't imagine living somewhere I didn't feel safe at all. My childhood was like that, so we moved as soon as we could. If I felt unsafe in our apartment, either alone or with my husband, I'd move. If I could help it, I'd never bring children into the world and raise them where I feared for their safety so badly that I'd rather have a gun in the home.

Wouldn't you rather live where you feel safe than constantly feel unsafe and have to always be on guard with your gun?
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:17 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock


Domestic incidents are exactly the type of incident that the statement "guns don't kill people, people kill people" was made for. If the gun wasn't around in the case of a domestic incident, most definately a knife (or whatever) would be used. These are cases were the killer isn't driven to use a gun on someone; they're driven to kill. Gun's just the quickest way.
I'd take my chances with a knife anyday, I can out run a knife.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:17 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje



Woman here.

Now I only speak for myself, my female relatives, and my female close friends, but with certainty NONE of us feel "safer" with our husbands around. Wait, most of us don't even HAVE husbands.

Most women feel safe in their home, period. I can't imagine living somewhere I didn't feel safe at all. My childhood was like that, so we moved as soon as we could. If I felt unsafe in our apartment, either alone or with my husband, I'd move. If I could help it, I'd never bring children into the world and raise them where I feared for their safety so badly that I'd rather have a gun in the home.

Wouldn't you rather live where you feel safe than constantly feel unsafe and have to always be on guard with your gun?
*Pipes in*

I live at home with my mom and brother. We don't feel unsafe ever, and we don't own guns or anything to protect us.

When my brother is home alone, he feels it necessary to turn on all the lights and sleep with MY signed baseball bat by his side.

This is an anger issue, not a safety issue. It's probably making the husband feel better about leaving the wife at home than the wife feeling better about her husband leaving.
Probably.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:20 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by PlaTheGreat


This is an anger issue, not a safety issue. It's probably making the husband feel better about leaving the wife at home than the wife feeling better about her husband leaving.
Probably.
It's just his views of women shining through again.
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:20 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock
Domestic incidents are exactly the type of incident that the statement "guns don't kill people, people kill people" was made for.
And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that. - Eddie Izzard


Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock
Gun's just the quickest way.
So that makes it okay...

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