It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution..... - Page 11 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-20-2007, 03:40 PM   #151
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje
You never know. Once a bum broke into my friends house to sleep on their couch. Good thing they didn't shoot him!
I can't say I'd be trusting of a bum breaking into my house with two small kids running around.

My wife and I have an obligation to protect our babies. If that means shooting someone breaking into my home to "take a nap" - then that's what it means. I can't take that chance.

And I didn't mean to insult you. My example was based on the feelings my wife has when I am called away for service. She feels safer when I'm around. She's weird like that.
__________________

__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:44 PM   #152
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje
5. On one such occasion (a robbery of our home), the guns were stolen. Some time later, the police called because guns registered to my dad had been used in another crime. Safe, huh?
..........................................................
I'd get a Boxer dog and train it to alert bark if was really so paranoid, which I'm not.
Chop the Killer, come on, that's really why you want him.

Gun theft is a huge, huge source of the black market in guns...up to 500,000 guns stolen per year, according to the FBI. It is true that the majority of criminal convictions involving a firearm also involve a firearm possession offense in some way, though that can mean anything from not having registered it properly to belonging to a prohibited possession category (often despite having passed a background check) to having stolen it yourself. And of course gun smuggling is a serious problem too, and one which would have to be dealt with separately from any gun control law reform. But the fact remains that if there weren't so many guns available legally in the first place, it wouldn't be as easy as it is to acquire one illegally. It's like what Irvine pointed out about justifiable gun homicide rates vs. criminal ones--the latter figure dwarfs the former, and the same lax regulation and flourishing commercial trade that make it easy for you to get a gun "for self-defense" make it easy for all kinds of future firearms offenders to get one "for self-defense" too. And the notion that there's some kind of absolute existential distinction between "law-abiding gun owners" and gun-toting criminals is reassuring, but ultimately untrue--there's a first time for every criminal; sometimes that involves a legally acquired gun, sometimes it doesn't.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:47 PM   #153
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,667
Local Time: 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Are you a mother? Do you think if you had children (if you don't) and your husband got called away to war for a year that you would feel safer with a gun in the house? Close your eyes and actually imagine a large man breaking into your back door and you hear him.

If you felt safer with a gun - is that really being paranoid? Or prepared?
So a husband can be replaced with a gun? At least for those helpless fragile women, that is...
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:48 PM   #154
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,483
Local Time: 01:14 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock


What kind of contacts do you need to buy pot? I'm not saying it's that easy right now; while guns are legal. But putting prohibition on them will make the black market for them a lot more accessable just because of usual supply & demand.


i guess i think that guns and pot are different things and it's far easier to transport an ounce than to transport a bunch of handguns. and i think the demand for pot is way, way higher than for handguns.

i do think it would be impossible to totally ban handguns. it would create a Prohibition situation, and i dont know how one could go about removing all the guns currently circulating in society.

i do think, though, that 1) guns do way, way more harm than good, and 2) American attitudes towards guns is incredibly fucked up.

sure, AEON, you could take a shot at a guy breaking into your house. but then say you miss. and he has a gun. and he shoots back at you and your child gets caught in the crossfire. and then your wife gets shot in the head.

the fact remains, as i pointed out earlier, in 1998 there were only 154 justifiable homicides and nealry 9,000 murders due to handguns.

statistically, it's not even close.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:51 PM   #155
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
trevster2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,330
Local Time: 02:44 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



the fact remains, as i pointed out earlier, in 1998 there were only 154 justifiable homicides and nealry 9,000 murders due to handguns.

statistically, it's not even close.
Well, those 9000 murder victims should have armed themselves.
__________________
trevster2k is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:51 PM   #156
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
considering the fact that the presence of a firearm in a house increases the likelihood of a homocide happening in the house by a factor of 22, and when someone is home, a gun is used for protection in fewer than two percent of home invasion crimes.

if that gun kills anyone, it will probably kill someone you know and love than an intruder.
Has AEON answered this yet? Or is he avoiding it like usual?
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:51 PM   #157
ONE
love, blood, life
 
MrBrau1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Verplexed in Vermont
Posts: 10,436
Local Time: 01:14 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


the fact remains, as i pointed out earlier, in 1998 there were only 154 justifiable homicides and nealry 9,000 murders due to handguns.

statistically, it's not even close.
That pretty much settles it.

A 58:1 ratio.

Those numbers can't be argued against.
__________________
"If you needed my autograph, I'd give it to you." Bob Dylan
MrBrau1 is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:52 PM   #158
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,483
Local Time: 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

And the notion that there's some kind of absolute existential distinction between "law-abiding gun owners" and gun-toting criminals is reasuring, but ultimately untrue--there's a first time for every criminal; sometimes that involves a legally acquired gun, sometimes it doesn't.


i think this is quite a good analysis -- it gets at an assumption in the semi-hysterical Nugent column, and it might get close to the heart of what might be termed "gun culture," and it might also be why notions about "evildoers" are resonant with so much of the population. the American outlook on many things can tend towards the Manichean, not least of which is criminals vs. non-criminals.

i make TV about crime these days. the crimes we cover all take place in the suburbs, and usually by upper-middle class people. it's amazing to me how many people simply snap one day and then kill somebody. it's not always with a gun, and in our shows these people obviously succeed by other means, but the availability of a firearm makes the moment of "snap" much deadlier.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:52 PM   #159
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,667
Local Time: 12:14 AM
Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock


I have no problem with gun control, but banning guns does nothing but take guns out of the hands of honest people. Sorry. If this guy had wanted to, he could easily have procured those guns illegally. And from the lessons we've learned through history about first Alchohol & then drugs, banning guns will make getting them even easier to get for those wishing to break the law. It'd be your typical supply and demand.

How many contacts do you have with the black market?

Your analogy with alcohol isn't a fair one, for one can brew alcohol in their own house, but it would be difficult to manufacture guns in your basement. Black market guns are built by legit manufacturers. If these guns were banned eventually the black market would have fewer and fewer places to look to for their supply.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:53 PM   #160
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


So a husband can be replaced with a gun? At least for those helpless fragile women, that is...
Concerning manners of protection against crime, yes. Is that some sort of stretch to think that most wives probably feel safer in their homes with their husbands present versus being home alone?
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:55 PM   #161
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Chop the Killer, come on, that's really why you want him.
Hehe, Chop is actually a "her", but yes part of her appeal is protection just based on her appearance and people's preconceived notions about the breed. For once, a false stereotype will be working in my favor!

Carry on....
__________________
Liesje is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:56 PM   #162
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,483
Local Time: 01:14 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k


Well, those 9000 murder victims should have armed themselves.


i can accept the fact that if a student had a gun, they could have stopped Cho dead. but the odds of that happening would require a nearly fully armed citizenry, and that would have disasterous consequences.

and that's really what's baffling. that's a Wild Wild West mentality for you.





Mandy's in the backroom handing out valium sheriff's on the airwaves talking to the D.J.'s forty seven heartbeats beating like a drum got to live it up live it up Ronnie's got a new gun
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:57 PM   #163
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Concerning manners of protection against crime, yes. Is that some sort of stretch to think that most wives probably feel safer in their homes with their husbands present versus being home alone?


Yes, thanks
__________________
Liesje is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:59 PM   #164
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 11:14 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It is time to revise/update the U.S. constitution.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



the fact remains, as i pointed out earlier, in 1998 there were only 154 justifiable homicides and nealry 9,000 murders due to handguns.

The only thing these numbers show me that if handguns were made illegal to own - then there would be 9154 murders and zero justifiable homicides.


Also, who knows how many murders don't happen because the would be killer doesn't know if the house he wants to break into is armed or not.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:59 PM   #165
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,667
Local Time: 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Concerning manners of protection against crime, yes. Is that some sort of stretch to think that most wives probably feel safer in their homes with their husbands present versus being home alone?
But do they feel safer with a gun?

I'll let the women answer that one for you...

In theory you may be right, but here's reality.

A responsible gun owner has their gun locked away, or at least the ammo locked away to protect their kids from playing with it. The "bad guy" walks in the house armed, you wake up unlock the gun, load it, and are going to be able to outdraw them?! I don't think so, more than likely you'll just startle them and they will shoot first. When most times they weren't ever planning on shooting you in the first place.

Now look at the justifiable homicides and tell me owning gun is justifiable.
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com