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Old 07-17-2002, 02:52 PM   #166
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The economy is recovering mos defly, What it also does not need is the constant talking down.. at least until election day.. by the liberals who are trying to tank this rising economy along with the Market.. but when these two meet.. The economy's rise versus the Market's Drop.. I think that the economy will be the stronger force and bring the Market up with it.. Yes.. You heard Greenspan yesterday apparently as well...

You quote your background.. I know of many people involved in the economy.. Cardboard Box producers who report that their production is up et al.. It's a Back and forth game we can play.. But i guess we can take that to PM if ya want..

Here's a few quotes from greenspan....

"While the economy has held up remarkably well, not surprisingly the depressing effects of recent events linger," the Fed chief told the Senate panel.

"All the evidence that we have been able to accumulate in recent weeks suggests that the economy is improving," he said later during questioning by lawmakers. "It's pretty much in line with our expectations."

Concerns are one thing, it's the constant excessive pessimism that is going on at the moment which is furthering problems.. Which again.. is correcting the 'excessive optimism' of the 90's.

Anyways, On to another thing you brought up.. This Bush Tax Cut leading to Deficits?.. This thing hasn't even been implemented yet. The Tax Cut has nothing to do with deficits.. Anyways they're proven to increase Government Intake. But... If you want to know where all these deficits are coming from.. It's that huge Education bill he signed.. The largest Farm Subsidy Ever.. The Federalization of Airline Security.. And The Terrorist Attacks.

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Old 07-17-2002, 04:11 PM   #167
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Washington, July 17 (AP)- Housing construction, which has helped fuel the sputtering economy, declined in June after a bumpy ride earlier this year, signaling the sector may be losing steam.

The article continues, "The Federal Reserve, citing WORRIES about the STRENGTH of the economic rebound, has opted at each of its four meetings this year to leave short-term interest rates at 40 year lows."

It continues, "But consumers, whose spending accounts for two-thirds of all economic activity, have continued to open their wallets despite the SPOTTY recovery and the SOUR stock market, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan told Congress Wednesday."

It continues, "Business spending, however, has remained WEAK, Greenspan said. It was deep cuts in capital spending that helped push the economy into recession last year."

This doesn't sound like a strong economy to me.

As for "talking down the economy", c'mon, let's be real here. It was Bush HIMSELF who talked down the economy during the election-this is irrefutable. He had to run against SOMETHING-sense he couldn't run against the economic boom times of Clinton/Gore-so he chose a campaign of economic fear by talking down the very economy you allege is so strong. Current economic data is mixed at best-their are some signs of strength but many signs of weakness too. I'm pleased to hear about your Cardboard box producers seeing increased business-but it is no indication that this is in any way a national trend.

Regarding the tax cuts....I would politely suggest you refrain from challenging me on "taxing" issues...this is my area of expertise...in the real world. I know more about tax law and policy than most. You are resorting to saying things about this tax cut that you are not informed about. I have no problem with you disagreeing as to tax theory as it affects the economy...but don't say things that aren't factually correct. For instance...contrary to your statement...the Bush tax cuts have indeed been enacted...signed last fall and another bill signed this past March. If you still doubt me than maybe you should tune in to Fox News or C-Span any weekday morning and hear those Bush admin officials credit their tax cuts for the (clears throat) "improving" economy. This now occurs daily. You can't miss it. Do you still want to assert that the Bush tax cuts haven't been enacted? Maybe you don't remember (or didn't qualify) receiving your $300 "rebate" check last fall ($500 if Head of Household-$600 if Married filing joint)---which was part of the first Bush tax cuts signed into law...surely you remember how that was supposed to "save" our economy? Trust me...the Bush tax cuts have been enacted...with more to come.

As for tax cuts having nothing to do with deficits...not the case at all. Tax cuts generally result in LESS revenue to federal and state governments...not more as some supply siders may argue. I agree that in the short term tax cuts can provide the gov't with more revenue due to high net worth individuals selling appreciated assets at more favorable rates...but this occurence is historically short term in nature...and less revenue becomes the norm. So if my math is correct here...2+2=4 and less revenue= deficits. Shall I entertain you with the huge DISPARITY in who received these tax cuts...don't be misled with the GOP rhetoric that more of the tax cut went to lower income individuals...because I can testify that in the "real" world that I operate in...my middle to lower income clients didn't get squat. Oh, my high net worth clients made out real well...big cuts in their marginal rates...no estate tax to worry about...reduction in the capital gains rate (which benefits them tremendously)...huge business tax credits to the wealthiest corporations...I could go on and on (but I know you don't want me to) because it gets much uglier. Hey, if this trickle-down thing is all it's cracked up to be maybe W and Dick will send us all a little money out of their tax savings to us common folk! That would certainly be compassionate of them, don't you think?
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Old 07-17-2002, 05:53 PM   #168
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Bush Talked down the economy because it was going down.. and he didn't want to be blamed for somethign that occurred before he took office.. The liberals are talking down a recovering and rising economy just so they have an issue in the upcoming election.

The Cardboard Box Company is just one of many examples.. but Yes it is good to hear this news...

About the deficits I'm making an issue of comparison.. This Tax Cut doesn't take full effect for a few years, and that is when it comes full circle.. That is my point.. And I see the issue of the Major Spending Bills our President has signed has no appearance into the post..

To say that a Terrorist Attack which rocked our market and economy.. The Largest Farm Subsidy in History, The Federalization of the Airline Security, The Airline Bailout, and This Huge Education Bill has no effect on the Deficit does not make any logical sense? Many liberal pundits are using the logic that to cut taxes while increasing spending is not smart and increases teh deficits.. not the tax cut alone.. I would be in favor of reduced spending while cutting taxes, but I'm also not president.

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Old 07-17-2002, 07:18 PM   #169
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Bush talked the economy right into the gutter-where it remains today. The Dems don't need to talk down a recovering economy to grab a campaign issue...they have enough issues to run and win on...corporate responsibility, affordable/accesible health care/insurance, the protection of civil liberties, a cleaner environment, protecting Social Security/Medicare, worker rights, etc etc.

You're right...the tax cuts are 100% implemented by 2011...long after Bush has left office we'll be cleaning up his mess. Clinton/Gore showed that it is possible to implement targeted, meaniful tax cuts AND increase spending while keeping the budget balanced and paying down debt. How? With sustained economic growth and proper financial management. This country misses former Treasury Secretary Bob Rubin. This guy was great. The problem with Bush's tax cut is that it is the LARGEST in history and the benefits overwhelmingly go to the upper 2% of American households, i.e. the richest of the rich. Do they really need a tax cut? Of course not. Because of this lop-sided tax cut and it's massive dollar amount you cannot help but run deficits...especially with a weak economy. Then, as you point out, throw in the education bill and a disastrous pork-laden farm bill (no pun intended) and it is a recipe for disaster. Bush is rolling out Reagan-era economic policies that ultimately led us into the recession of the late 80's-early 90's. It's deja vu all over again. So, yes, the tax cut is still going to be the largest reason for our increasing deficit due to it's huge cost over the next 10 years...what remains to be seen is just how much of a financial disaster Bush's economic policies leave us in.
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Old 07-17-2002, 07:42 PM   #170
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I see we disagree, ah well.. I do have a question but I'll take it to PM..

The Republicans did control the spending in what you are referencing during the Clinton Admin.

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Old 07-17-2002, 07:53 PM   #171
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An amusing rehash of the same old fabrications - particularly the "tax cuts for the rich" mantra - but I found one thing REALLY amusing:

Clinton/Gore showed that it is possible to implement targeted, meaniful tax cuts AND increase spending while keeping the budget balanced and paying down debt.

You know when all that happened? After the Republicans won both houses of Congress in 1994. They sure as HELL didn't try tax cuts and controlled spending before: there was tax INCREASES, the stimulus package, and Hilary's health care plan.

Not only THAT, but the GOP shoved those tax cuts and controlled spending measures down the White House's throat, after several vetoes.

And above all that, these measures that brought about budget surpluses were the SAME MEASURES that lead the Democrats to accuse the GOP of trying to murder senior citizens seven years ago...

...the SAME MEASURES that lead you to accuse the GOP of the same thing a few hours ago.

Ah. Sweet, sweet irony.
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