It happened AGAIN

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i try and stay out of this forum, and i don't have the biggest support for this war in iraq, but if we see them celebrating after killing our guys, why don't we fucking bomb the fuck out of them? we just kinda sit there, why not drop a few bombs on these guys, they're obviously not the ones that want to help us build a new iraq (and we need all the help we can get). sorry, but this story (i was gonna post it) really pisses me off.
 
I wonder if anyone in the Arab world is bothered by these displays? There was plenty of outrage from the prison abuse photos, but there is relative silence when these scenes are shown.
 
That's tragic for the families of those who died. Totally unacceptable and unjustified, and yes, the Arab world needs to take a long hard look at itself. But what do we really expect from them, they've behaved appallingly on behalf of the Palestinians they claim to love so much, this is not much different.
 
I read the article twice and yes many celebrated the initial burning, nobody was hung from any bride and bystanders helped the wounded.

Don't get me wrong it stinks and I hate the killing, but it didn't go down the way the post said.
 
CampbellMSU:
You're really surprised that they are upset?
They have bin a colony for a long time after that they god a dictator which was supported a long time by the western world (same situation with the dictators left and right of their country)
Maybe their kids were killed by US WMDs (Cluster Bombs), maybe their friends were tortured in a prison maybe their wife was raped by US MPs and that could be a reason.

So you are surprised that they hate people who invaded their country who told them they will be liberated and all they got was more violence and terrorism on their streets?

And your answer is: "why don't we fucking bomb the fuck out of them?"
And then you will be surprised that even more people hate the western world so much that they'll give their life to bomb the shit out of us?

Oh well, they are evil because they target civilians - we are good because we target an enemy country and bomb the shit out of them?

Of course it's wrong to celebrate when somebody gets killed but we don't have to go to iraq to see that people are willing to celebrate that somebody where they think it's their enemy gets killed.
 
CampbellMSU said:
i try and stay out of this forum, and i don't have the biggest support for this war in iraq, but if we see them celebrating after killing our guys, why don't we fucking bomb the fuck out of them? we just kinda sit there, why not drop a few bombs on these guys, they're obviously not the ones that want to help us build a new iraq (and we need all the help we can get). sorry, but this story (i was gonna post it) really pisses me off.
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No wonder you try to stay out of this forum, you'll end up with posts like Klaus's, telling you how evil Americans are as if these idiots are the poor victims and we somehow deserve it and their hate is justified. Well if their hate is justified, Klaus, maybe ours is too.

As the police left, the crowd poured kerosene into one of the vehicles and set it on fire. Heavy, black smoke poured from the vehicle. About 20 youths danced around a charred body.
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That is pathetic. Yes, worse than putting panties on a guy's head and making him act like a dog. Youths dancing around a charred body? What kind of inhumananity is that? So Klaus, those electrical workers from here, England and France deserved that? There is no excuse for this behavior.

My husband never really talks unless he's drunk, but last Friday night he went on a tirade about things like this. I won't even post all his comments out of fear of flames, but he was very fed up with the people over there and the the people here and around the world who continue to take up for them. It was a lot like what Campbell said and a lot more. He went into a raging tirade against liberals, pussyfooting around worrying about offending people, and said to all of you who defend those types, why, they'd just as soon chop off your head and put it on the internet!
 
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Funny how we all come back to the same point, no matter where we're from or our political beliefs. Some things are truly universal.

Good point nbc...Indeed.
 
I think that those Iraqis in Baghdad have put up with 2 decades of standard dictatorship with 1 decade of being fucked over by Saddam very very badly while he abused the Oil for Food Program and placing the blame for suffering on the US and Israel. They have no education, jobs or hope and see the US as the enemy. We have to prove to them what a liberal democracy is and what it offers, when you have a new economic system (which takes a shitload of work I might add) the humanitarian situation changes and things for everybody get better. I suspect that as the situation in the country continues to get better the ill will towards the US forces and violence against it will only decrease if the pace continues, we have seen this general trend in the south with the Shiites who we lost a lot of good will with in '91 by allowing Saddam to quell the uprising (now there was a real uprising, non of this uppety dipshit Muqtada Sadr BS, that was hundreds of thousands killed with attack helicopters going all out in Basra, we havent seen anything like it during the occupation).

They may be victims of circumstance but that doesnt change the facts, if they act like animals and pour kerosene onto a crashed car with bodies inside it they should recieve no sympathy from anybody and must find themsleves facing the business end of an M16. The sooner they get jobs and have an interest in seeing their country suceed the sooner we won't have to worry about this shit.
 
NBC:
I remember that Hamas condemed the beheading of the US citizen i wonder if that statement made it to the US media.

U2Kitten:
Sure it is and as soon as someone's posting in this forum who wants to justify bombings in the US as a revenge i'd tell him that it's as stupid as Bombing Iraq for revenge.
 
A_Wanderer said:
they act like animals
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Please, my cats are offended as they have more sense ;)

Klaus- so you think those people trying to rebuild the electric plant deserved that outrage? That kind of blanket hatred and rage for a particular group is something you're against, isn't it? Or is it okay as long as it's somebody you hate?:|
 
Scarletwine said:
I read the article twice and yes many celebrated the initial burning, nobody was hung from any bride and bystanders helped the wounded.

Don't get me wrong it stinks and I hate the killing, but it didn't go down the way the post said.
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I saw the story on the news and tried to find a link. I only skimmed the story and this is what I mistook for the bridge part. They were comparing it to the last attack like this. Sorry I misread it.

The chaotic scene Monday was reminiscent of the violence and anti-American hatred that accompanied the March 31 slaying in Fallujah of four Americans, whose bodies were mutilated and hung from a Euphrates river bridge.

As for your bystanders helping the wounded, those weren't the people in the SUV they were helping, but local Iraqis hurt when the bomb went off:

An Interior Ministry official said 13 people were killed in the blast, including the five foreigners.

The bomb exploded as three SUVs carrying the contractors were passing through the square. The blast destroyed eight vehicles and turned nearby shops and a two-story house to rubble.

Terrified and dazed survivors scrambled to pull victims from the wreckage. One elderly man, pale and semiconscious, was carried away in his blood-soaked nightclothes.

Iraqi bystanders scooped up victims and loaded them into vehicles or pickup trucks to speed them to hospitals. Body parts and fragments of clothing lay scattered around the street.

An Interior Ministry official said 13 people were killed in the blast, including the five foreigners.

The bomb exploded as three SUVs carrying the contractors were passing through the square. The blast destroyed eight vehicles and turned nearby shops and a two-story house to rubble.

Terrified and dazed survivors scrambled to pull victims from the wreckage. One elderly man, pale and semiconscious, was carried away in his blood-soaked nightclothes.

Iraqi bystanders scooped up victims and loaded them into vehicles or pickup trucks to speed them to hospitals. Body parts and fragments of clothing lay scattered around the street.

The bomb also destroyed someone's home and some stores. Eight Iraqis were killed and several more wounded. That's who the bystanders were helping, I hope you didn't think it was the westerners! Even if someone did want to help, they'd have been attacked by the anti-American mob! Ignorant bastards wanted to kill Americans so bad they killed 4 people in the SUV from other countries, 8 of their own people, damaged their own businesses, and hurt their chances of getting their power station back. Brilliant :tsk:
 
U2Kitten:

No!
They didn't deserve it.
If it would hapen to Iraqi civilists we'd call it "colaterale damage"

I just want you to understand the iraqi side. If you don't understand it what you might call "the enemy" you won't understand what's going to hapen down there.

Just remember that even UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi called Mr. Bremer 'the dictator' of Iraq.
If even western people think like that - how much more might arab people hate us down there?

And imagine for a moment that people feel that the US might just install another dictator in iraq - would it surprise you that they hate US soldiers?
So.. to stop that WE have to send them signals that we are liberators not new dictators after what's hapened (and what i mentioned in other postings before).
It's much easier to invade a country than to convince people who lost innocent beloved family, relatives and friends that we are honest men and don't make war because of revenge, strategic influense or money.
 
I hate a lot of people for a lot of reasons, but I'm not blowing anyone up or cutting any heads off or dancing over any bodies. We all have rage, you don't act like this. :down:

One of the guys also claimed he saw an Israeli flag on the car, probably not true, but it also shows their blanket hatred for Jews too. To want someone to die because of their nationality, religion, or beliefs, and to dance over their dead body, is wrong. I know what you're saying about how they feel, I already know the stuff you posted, but it doesn't help justify this one little bit. It would serve them right if we all just left and let them fix up their own mess.
 
I understand the rationale behind their behavior, but it does them no credit in my book. :down:
 
Lakhdar Brahimi is not exactly what I would call western. Born in Algeria, representative of the Arab League, what he said was window dressing to give the UN some credibility in the eyes of the Iraqi people, after the Oil for NO-food Scam in not suprised.

I don't think that the Iraqi side want's to see violence, I think that they want to get on with their lives in peace. It is for this reason that they will see the US and coalition as a necissary evil until they have a real police force.

On the flipside you have the Baathists and Terrorists who do not want Democracy to suceed in Iraq, they want chaos. If they get chaos there is a good chance that the US will withdraw early and will be unable to intervine in the ME for some time. They would also score a brand new country to run as a terrorist hotbed.

It is really very simple, Iraqis are a lot better off now that Saddam is gone and the country has not decended into total anarchy with hundreds of thousands of casualties and massive starvation as the anti-war movement would have us believe before the war. Life in Iraq is getting better daily, we have handed sovereignty over in terms of Oil Revenue, Water Distribution as well as instituted a new navy that guards the port of Umm Qasr on its own.

Iraq is a lot better now that Saddam has been deposed and the country is back on track rebuilding, it is going very well considering the state of the infrastructure under Saddam and the sheer beurocracy created in his quasi-socialist dictatorship that prevented proper economic development. Can somebody tell me how Iraq looks worse off now than it did in 2002?
 
U2Kitten said:
I understand the rationale behind their behavior, but it does them no credit in my book. :down:
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Of course not. This is the way *not* to handle a situation like this. The right way to handle it would be non-violent demonstrations. I've seen non-violent demonstrators in Iraq protesting against Sadr's militia. If they want the U.S. out of these they should have demonstrations. They can do it. It's been done.
 
Agreed 100% Verte, but we've killed over 10,000 civilians in the aggression. I'd imagine their hatred has cause. They have no one to take it out on except foreigners.

I've also seen the tapes of GI's shooting and whooping it up when they kill a wounded man.

This doesn't excuse either side, just points to the horrors of war.
 
Scarletwine said:
Agreed 100% Verte, but we've killed over 10,000 civilians in the aggression. I'd imagine their hatred has cause. They have no one to take it out on except foreigners. <clip>
This doesn't excuse either side, just points to the horrors of war.
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True, there's cause. That's not really my point. My point is that there are effective and ineffective ways to push for change. The most effective way is to have demonstrations and sit-ins, a la Gandhi and MLK. I think they wrote the textbook on how to make meaningful changes in the human rights arena. The Wahhabist "jihad" school of thought is so backwards and primitive IMHO. One of Gandhi's sidekicks was a Muslim, I forget his name, but they should be following him not the Wahhabists.
 
Cause and effect. I haven't seen anyone here say that the actions were justified, or right because the US is evil and we had it coming. It's just about cause and effect.
 
But there have been several who give you the 'what did you expect' and 'think how they feel' stuff which makes it look like that. No matter what, this is never the way to do things, and never excusible. Attacking random vehicles full of people coming down the road, causing and rejoicing in their hideous demise, that's no way to vent your anger, no way to do anything but prove what a total uncivilized idiot you are.

I also disagree it's the same as collateral damage, which is almost always unintentional and the result of miscalculations. There was also collateral damage here, killing their own 'Iraqi brothers' and damaging their own town. If they don't take better precautions in their attacks they can't complain when other people do it. Honestly, if I were a U S soldier and I witnessed the dancing around the bodies I'd have been temped to shoot them dead myself. It's sickening, and it's sickening to see anyone try to make any kind of excuses for them or their ways.
 
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ThatGuy said:
Cause and effect. I haven't seen anyone here say that the actions were justified, or right because the US is evil and we had it coming. It's just about cause and effect.
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That's right. I'm not about to say there's anything moral about what they did, because there's not. But I think I might be pissed off if someone had come in and bombed the heck out of my town, even if they also overthrew the horrid dictator I despised. There's no excuse for the killings. They should be having peaceful demonstrations. In fact, there have been peaceful demonstrations protesting certain things in Iraq lately. The people in Fallujah had a demonstration against Sadr. Last year some Shias, I believe, demonstrated against something the Coalition was doing. All they did was pick up signs and march through the streets. This is what they should be doing.
 
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