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Old 06-17-2004, 12:35 PM   #76
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Well Bush did say the other day that we were rebuilding a 5,000 year old society. Maybe he meant that meant that the Code of Hammurabi was law again.

But yes, peaceful protest is definitely the answer. As we've learned from so many other conflicts, violence only begets violence, and that cycle will continue indefintely. Unfortunately I don't see any Ghandis coming out of Iraq.
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Old 06-17-2004, 02:54 PM   #77
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I don't think the peaceful protests that have been held so far (they are shown on other stations, not just the big 4 in the US) have proven fruitful in anyway. As Brahimi stated when he resigned, Bremer is the new Dictator of Iraq, and so nothing goes unless he approves it. And he gets his orders form Rummy. If the Iraqi's opinions mean nothing it becomes more and more violent as frustration grows. Also the rising civilian deaths, security concerns, unlawful detentions, and torture or mishandling of people for questioning grows, violence is their only outlet.

I just watched an Australian documentary and they had soldiers storming into peoples homes in the middle of the night and arresting and beating the men without even a translator to tell them what they wanted.

You sow what you reap and we've reaped a whirlwind.
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Old 06-17-2004, 05:54 PM   #78
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I've heared about peaceful protests months months ago.
Well the Iraqis said it was peaceful and the ocupying forces shot at them - but of course there is no way for me to find out if that was true or not.
Anyway i think it wouldn't have bin mentioned in the press if there was no response with guns.
So who knows how many iraqis are protesting since media thinks its too boring for us to watch on tv
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Old 06-17-2004, 06:49 PM   #79
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Yeah, it was reported here that U.S. troops opened fire on some people in Iraq. The idiots. We've made so many mistakes in Iraq it's insane. The whole thing is really pissing me off.
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Old 06-17-2004, 07:19 PM   #80
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I don't believe that. Why would they fire on peaceful protesters and not the people who did the SUV murders and things like that. Some of you are convinced our government and the media are all lying, ever consider the Iraqis might lie sometimes too? Hello? Remember the 'baby milk factory' back in '91?
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Old 06-17-2004, 07:25 PM   #81
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Well in the past the American media has captured some of it on film, but you're right the Iraqis may be lying. Klaus referenced this point above when he said
Quote:
Well the Iraqis said it was peaceful and the ocupying forces shot at them - but of course there is no way for me to find out if that was true or not.
I assume he meant the truth of whether or not is was actually peaceful. We all have to keep an open mind about the reports that come out of Iraq.
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Old 06-17-2004, 08:15 PM   #82
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The Iraqis could indeed be lying. I certainly won't rule that out.
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Old 06-18-2004, 12:58 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine
I just watched an Australian documentary and they had soldiers storming into peoples homes in the middle of the night and arresting and beating the men without even a translator to tell them what they wanted.

You sow what you reap and we've reaped a whirlwind.
I know several people who have been to Iraq in the last 8 months and they all confirm this happens regularly.
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Old 06-18-2004, 02:33 AM   #84
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Thanks - yes of course i am not sure if these people were peaceful protestors.
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Old 06-18-2004, 06:45 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


I know several people who have been to Iraq in the last 8 months and they all confirm this happens regularly.
It should have happnened more until they were disarmed.
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Old 06-18-2004, 08:54 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
I don't believe that. Why would they fire on peaceful protesters and not the people who did the SUV murders and things like that. Some of you are convinced our government and the media are all lying, ever consider the Iraqis might lie sometimes too? Hello? Remember the 'baby milk factory' back in '91?
Because they do. I'm sorry but your being naive. Remeber under Bush 1 the Iraqi's dumping Kuwaiti newborns out of their incubators and letting them die on the floor. Total lies and the girl who went on tv was a member of the royal family in Kuwait.

I do think they lie also, but I've seen film of protestors being fired on.
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Old 06-18-2004, 09:14 AM   #87
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I'm not saying they never lie. I believe all politicians are liars. I'm not saying the media never lie. I don't trust them either. I'm saying the Iraqis are not above lying too.

I'm sick to death of seeing the Iraqis portrayed as poor perfect innocent victims. I'm tired of seeing everything they do, such as burning the bodies or chopping off the heads of people who had done nothing wrong somehow exonherated because someone from the US did this or that in a totally different scenario.

As for the video, where is it, on some obscure pro Iraqi radical website? I wouldn't believe that either unless there was an entire scene of at least a half hour leading up to it. It's easy to take a shot and say it's peaceful protesters being shot, but where is the proof and evidence? I'm cynical about this because of people I know personally. I know people who take things out of context, conveniently leave out what they did wrong to try to frame the other person up. They will do this telling stories and doctoring emails, so I'm sure editing a tape, or only broadcasting the part that suits their needs is out of the question. See, I'm very skeptical too, but I don't believe anybody is above doing something like that.

Above all, as always, two wrongs do not make a right.
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Old 06-18-2004, 09:31 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
I \Hello? Remember the 'baby milk factory' back in '91?

The "baby milk factory" was just what it appeared to be, a baby milk factory. It had no miltary value at all.
"Babies torn from incubators in hospitals".....another
bunch of propaganda. It never happened.
"Smart bombs" weren't that smart. Most of them missed their
targets.
Gulf War I was full of propaganda and mistruths.
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Old 06-18-2004, 09:39 AM   #89
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I think that sometimes the U.S. politicians are lying, because they do it. Sometimes the Iraqis are lying, because they do too. It is hard for me to trust *anyone* with alot of power.
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Old 06-18-2004, 09:40 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by RockNRollDawgie



The "baby milk factory" was just what it appeared to be, a baby milk factory. It had no miltary value at all.
"Babies torn from incubators in hospitals".....another
bunch of propaganda. It never happened.
"Smart bombs" weren't that smart. Most of them missed their
targets.
Gulf War I was full of propaganda and mistruths.
Ummm, I was watching that on TV, at one time I even had it on videotape. What I saw was from Iraqi TV, there were several middle eastern gentlemen mumbling over some debris, there was Arabic writing on the screen. One guy picks up a piece of debris, about 4 feet tall and wide, all ragged, with the words BABY MILK FACTORY painted on in black stencil. I laughed my ass off. Because:

Baby milk factories don't say 'baby milk factory.' Baby formula is made by larger companies, and that's not the only thing they make. The name of the company would be on the factory, not 'baby milk factory.' I think they chose that idea because they were trying to think of the thing that would have the most sympathy value, and I believe they totally made it up. There were lots of jokes about it in those days, I wasn't the only one who saw how fake it was.

If it really were a baby milk factory, would the writing be that small, just on that one piece of debris, and in black stencil and spraypaint?Wouldn't it be much larger, and in Arabic? Why English? That was propaganda for OUR benefit, to try to trick Americans who saw it. I wasn't fooled. I believe some people want to be fooled, because they hate our government so much they get off on seeing anything that makes it look bad. (lots of them post here!) This was ridiculous.
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